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Comment by putzdown | Hacker News Reader

The main message I take from this story is that a decent quorum of consumers want Apple to offer a smaller phone in each generation. The OP seems not to have minded having to upgrade eventually, just not to a “virtual tablet.” I’ve heard others express the same desire.

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And Apple did this for two generations and not enough of people one bought it but it is still available used .

https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-12/specs/ (12 mini)

https://support.apple.com/en-us/111873

I would recommend to return the phone and get the 13 mini which should last awhile

The SE3 is good enough and not too big

The only, only reason I ever buy anything but the smallest phone they offer is because the best cameras are never on the smallest devices. The extra size is pure down-side for me, and I don't really give a shit about slightly faster processors or what have you (I hardly burden the low-end ones), but I do find when looking back at older photos I always appreciate when I've had better cameras, so I hesitate to go too low-end on those.

I'd pay about the same (or maybe even exactly the same, but feel a little annoyed about it) for a small Apple phone with the same camera as the expensive big models.

I choose the cheapest technically up-to-date one. I really don't care about the camera, the gap between generation is mostly not interesting. Actually the only reason I had to replace the last one is that Apple stopped supporting it with the latest iOS...

I love SE3, had SE2 before it. I love the phone and the size, but I do NOT love the battery life.. It's manageable though.

battery life is great for moderate use in my experience. Won't support watching videos all day, but I usually get almost two days of life out of it.

Battery life is not excellent indeed. I have cables and extra battery most of the time when out for a day.

I have https://iwalkmall.com/products/cute-portable-charger-4500mah to extend the battery life when I'm on the go

I'd be scared to break the thing: it is so big and directly connected. It wouldn't fit into a pocket anyway...

Also I wouldn't choose one with a lightning connector, better with a USB-C (or A) female port, so I could also use it for some other devices too if necessary.

It is rounded and slippery and big enough that it exposes double-tap to make the screen slide down.

I preferred the 4 and 5 size and shape. Hate the double-tap too...

If I get a 13 mini today, updates will last 3 years. That is not much for what it is still a fairly expensive phone

+1 for the 13 mini if form factor is your primary concern (and given the sizes of even the 'small' mobile phone offerings of recent years I completely understand why that would be).

I upgraded an eight year old SE (first generation) to an SE3 thinking it would be the obvious choice, then promptly replaced it with the 13 mini within a week (fortunately still available at the time).

The difference is small on paper but noticable in your hands, and I honestly feel like the 13 mini is the spiritual successor to the SE series while the SE3 is a weird relative that you don't really want to have to interact with.

For some reason the slightly more boxy and grip friendly design of the SE1 and SE2 was changed in the SE3 to have the curves that were introduced in (I think?) the iPhone 6, despite the SE series having a slightly more square design up to that point. But the SE3 also inherited the lower raw technical specs that were expected from the SE series.

So somehow the 13 mini wins in terms of both form factor _and_ tech capabilities/new Apple features (such as Face ID over Touch ID).

The problem with the 13 mini is it's lack of touchid. it's fine otherwise and I'd pick one up in a heartbeat if it did, but it doesn't, so I won't. really waiting to see how the SE4 goes. I'm. envious of some of android's devices and features, the main thing keeping me locked into apple's ecosystem is iMessage.

Yea I really want the iPad Air 4th gen TouchID on the power button which would keep the screen layout and size but still have the security of a fingerprint.

Agree, Touch ID is the one thing I still really miss from the SE. Face ID is usually not an issue, but there are always cases that result in more friction than with Touch ID.

Sometimes you don't quite catch it at the right angle (and sometimes it sees you when you're not even looking), and other times you just don't quite have enough fave visible for it to work (for me usually when I'm doomscrolling in bed with my face squished into a pillow, so maybe that's a sign).

Face ID is far better for me than touch id.

There’s no touchid on any other phone apple currently sells; I would bet against having it on a newly released apple device.

The impression I get is that these consumers who want a smaller phone are a very loud minority. They also often seem to overlap with the set of consumers who are extremely cheap. To Apple they are just bad customers who they will always have a hard time making money from -- not super worth catering to.

I also suspect that (at least on HN), the loud minority are heavy users of laptops and desktops. For the average person who has an old laptop for writing reports for school, or a crappy locked down laptop from their job, the phone is their main computing interface, so they want it to be bigger and nicer.

I would gladly pay a bit more for a phone with a more manageable form factor and if I could be so lucky a battery life that's more than two days. Sadly it seems like I have to pay more for a product I want _less_, just because the demand for large form factor phones is high enough for Apple to consider just not bothering with. I understand market supply and demand, but eh...

Funny how the German word for mobile phones exactly what most modern mobile phones aren't. Handy.

> they are just bad customers who they will always have a hard time making money from

The iPhone 12 mini still ended as one of the top 10 smartphone models sold in January 2021.[0]

There was also a new iPhone SE model that was half the price and roughly the same size. I wouldn't be surprised that most decided the iPhone SE was a better deal at the time. In fact, the iPhone 11 and iPhone SE were the top-selling iPhone models of 2020.[1]

[0] https://www.patentlyapple.com/2021/04/in-january-iphones-cap...

[1] https://wccftech.com/iphone-11-iphone-se-top-selling-phones-...

Both of those sources paint the picture GP was telling. For 2020 the iPhone SE sells 2nd place in unit count... nearly tied with a unit that was out for 6 fewer months that year with twice the ASP. Nearly 1/3 the sales of the previous generation model that year. Same for the top 10 best selling models in Jan 2021, combine both the iPhone SE 2020 and iPhone 12 Mini and you've got the monthly sale volume of the previous generation iPhone 11 at half the sale price and 2 models worth of R&D. This data for a the year after a slump of smaller models not being available.

If this was OnePlus or someone those would be decent numbers. The problem is they are Apple, they already held the top 4 spots by significantly larger margin with premium devices. Building low cost devices to only make 8th and 10th place with them isn't necessarily a win for them. They can just cut margin on the older versions of the popular models if they want to capture that price point without stifling their focus on their new products each year.

The way people talk about smaller phones around here you'd expect the 2020 model was outselling new models through this day and the masses were waiting with bated breath for updates. Truth is there is just a smaller portion of the market that actually wants such phones when it comes time to upgrade but you here from them more often because they are one of the least common and least valuable segments of the market to try to service.

Why is being a minority consumer worthy of a dismissal and lack of service?

I was going thru a box of old things the other day and came upon an old iPhone 4. God, what a beautiful device. In my opinion, the peak of iPhone design. I would love to have a phone that small again.

That was also peak iphone hype era—Gizmodo-style and all.

Yeah, the devices were still new enough that they seemed kind of magical.

I think it may all have been a terrible mistake though -- the world is more fun when people aren't glued to their phones.

The iPhone SE first generation, perfected that design. I really miss it :(

I felt like 3GS was the best form-factor. Fits so nicely in the hand and you can reach almost the entire screen with your thumb while holding it (more or less). I wish I could have just kept using that forever.

Yet when Apple offer those devices they don’t sell enough to warrant Apple keeping them in the lineup.

Having said that I wonder if the article’s author would have been better off buying the SE. It is smaller, has Touch ID and will run his apps.

Unfortunately, the upcoming SE 4 appears to have a 6.1 inch screen.

Isn't the iPhone SE basically that? Why didn't OP get the SE?

https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/

I'm not clear where that read comes from? There is a single mention of "veritable tablets" in this post, and I'm not at all seeing this backed up with any evidence of latent demand?

The author appears to be someone who gets angry or very annoyed when he does not get his way. The author may also just not like change. Basically, he is upset he had to buy a new phone after 6 years and the new phone was different from his old phone. I do not think his behavior is productive or helpful.

Which, to be fair and clear, there is nothing wrong with getting upset about having to upgrade. Nothing wrong with complaining. Sometimes, can probably be good?

I'm just confused as this article doesn't even try to present this as a latent demand from others. Such that I don't understand the opening comment. Reminds me hearing folks complain about bad pockets in formal wear. Is largely a true statement, but I think it is also clear that the demand does not exist for it. Despite how vocal some people can be.

1. The article outright states that hes not pissed at Apple for 'only' supporting the phone for 6 years.

I read that criticism as aimed at the software developers withdrawing support for older OS versions.

I read the article more as a lament, rather than angry or annoyed. The author had a perfectly usable phone that he was forced from due to external factors, and the replacement doesn't improve upon its predecessor.

And really "every other generation" would be pretty nice too. An actually small phone, actually supported for a few years (included in the guidelines for app writers and to remind web page designers that this exists). We could live with "every other generation".

That would be better than "Eh, we don't believe in it anyway" kind of reluctance.

I'd be happy with a new mini even every third generation. My 12 mini is still great except for the battery life (even after getting a new battery less than a year ago).

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