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Comment by ak217 | Hacker News Reader

If anyone is looking for alternatives as far as long term supported products go... I've had nothing but good experiences with Ubiquiti (Unifi) and OpenWRT. At the lower end of the price spectrum, OpenWRT supported devices can be an incredible value, and most will probably remain supported for decades to come.

More broadly, it's not just about the support commitment but also about the company's reputation for shipping solid software. i.e. what is the prior on a scenario like this after the product goes EOL.

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> At the lower end of the price spectrum, OpenWRT supported devices [...] will probably remain supported for decades to come.

Not really. Each newer OpenWRT release needs slightly more storage and memory than the previous one, and these devices at the lower end of the price spectrum tend to have as little storage and memory as they can get away with. Older devices with as little as 4 MB of storage and/or 32 MB of memory are already unable to run current OpenWRT releases, and devices with 8 MB of storage and/or 64 MB of memory are already on the way out. But yeah, other than that OpenWRT does tend to support devices way past their original EOL.

Counterpoint: The original "Google Wi-Fi" Mesh routers (the hockey puck looking ones) from about 10~ years ago come with *4GB* of storage and 512MB of RAM [1]

[1] https://openwrt.org/toh/google/wifi

They're about $30-$50 USD for a 3 pack on eBay

Why did Google spec them so heavy?

They probably budgeted a dollar for storage and a dollar for ram, or close to it.

Sometimes it's nice to be able to run a normal OS.

The storage is eMMC, basically the cheapest thing available once you've committed. You'd have to actively try to buy eMMC smaller than 2-4GB. Same for the RAM, that's a single chip. It's not a heavy spec, just somewhere near the bottom of the cost curve for those particular parts.

They probably used similar parts in another product and threw them into the routers for the additional order volume, known bring-up risk, and dev benefits. The pixel series also uses Samsung eMMC, iirc.

It's not just those. The 16 MB storage/128 MB flash recommended minimums are a non-issue for pretty much any remotely popular router in the 802.11ac wifi era, and I doubt OpenWRT will suddenly explode in size and blow past those limits any time soon (just look at its trajectory over the past decade).

Oh wow, are those OpenWRT compatible?? I’ve been out of the game since having a WRT54GL with Tomato, so pardon my ignorance

Note that the limit only applies to base OpenWRT installation. I have successfully configured my ancient router to boot from the router's USB storage (64gig flash drive)

I disagree with your sentiment. I think the routers openwrt has dropped support for are super low spec, like $20. And they still run older versions of openwrt.

You could probably also just run openwrt with out a gui and probably do fine.

Additionally, I like that openwrt works on higher end boxes now, like the zyxel gs1900 12, 24 and 48-port switches.

Regarding supporting devices long-term, I can still get current version official OpenWrt for the Netgear WNDR3700v2, which I think is about 15 years old at this point.

https://firmware-selector.openwrt.org/?version=23.05.5&targe...

https://openwrt.org/toh/netgear/wndr3700

I always try to find out what's one of the best-supported OpenWrt routers at the time I'm shopping. And can I get one (or a few) of them on eBay at great prices.

WRT54-GL, WNDR3700(v2,v4) and WNDR3800, Netgear R7800.

I also have an OPNsense box that I'm evaluating. But, since OPNsense (FreeBSD) isn't strong on WiFi, I'd need to pair it with separate WiFi APs (running OpenWrt). I'm not liking the extra complexity, when an OpenWrt R7800 still does everything I really need right now.

> WRT54-GL, WNDR3700(v2,v4) and WNDR3800, Netgear R7800.

The WRT54-GL stands out, while having a really long support life it's also just FE, 10/100Mbps. The others are gigabit Ethernet. Could possibly be replaced from the list by the D-Link DIR-825 (N, not AC) which is also at the same support level as the Netgear WNDR3700v2.

I think OpenWRT is the right approach at this point. Open source really excels where there is a 'commons.' We all have a shared interest in secure networks. Commercialized gate keeping of router firmware doesn't make sense. These manufactures should just switch to OpenWRT and skin it.

> These manufactures should just switch to OpenWRT and skin it.

Take a look at Teltonika, that's basically what they do, but with nice over-provisioned hardware. Comes with the "industrial" price tag, but theirs is the most rock solid network gear I've ever used, and you actually receive frequent router and modem firmware updates.

I have one of their RUTX50 (5G LTE modem/router) at home and get about ~550 Mbit's through it, best internet I've ever had. I've never been forced to reboot it. I tried some consumer 5G modems before that and they were a total waste of money. I've also used their non LTE gear elsewhere and it's the same pleasant experience, and naturally highly configurable due to OpenWRT without having to hack around.

OpenBSD also works great for such things.

Anyone have any OPNSense budget hardware recommendations?

N100 is an excellent chip to go for. I'm currently using a aliexpress special with a celeron n5105 chipset in it.. it works fine as well, but I'd opt for the N100 next time if I had to replace it.

Celeron N5105

CPU: Intel Jasper Lake Celeron Processor N5105, 4 core 4 threads,64 bit, 10nm, 2.0GHz up to 2.9GHz, 4M cache

GPU: Intel UHD Graphics GPU, 24EU, 450MHz up to 800MHz

Alder Lake N100

CPU: Intel Alder Lake Processor N100, 4 core 4 threads,64 bit, 10nm, Up to 3.4GHz, 6M cache

GPU: Intel UHD Graphics GPU, 24EU, Up to 750MHz

I bought a N100 model to run as my backup server (PBS etc) and its a cracker. Debian is so snappy on it.

Also running OPNSense (in a VM) on an N5105 from an AliExpress mini box, with four Ethernet ports. Thing gets hot though, passively cooled, but I put a fan on top of it.

Also runs another VM with some lightweight docker containers. Reliable little thing.

Would also go N100 if needed replacement.

N150 is on the way already. https://liliputing.com/at-least-four-mini-pcs-with-intel-n15...

I've recently found that the N5105 is cutting my HFC in half due to not being powerful enough to handle 1000/50 with IDP/IDS, so guess what I had to order to replace it :-D

looking forward to setting up the N100

Just to clarify, OPNsense is based on FreeBSD[0], not OpenBSD. But OpenBSD does indeed make a good router/firewall OS as mentioned by GP. :)

[0] https://opnsense.org/about/about-opnsense/

What performance are you looking for alternatively what's you (power) budget?

MikroTik also has a number of cheap devices and I have several of their "discontinued" products that are over a decade old that I'm still updating.

Their releases aren't really for _a_ device, but for a CPU architecture/chipset, so I don't know that I've actually run across any device that went unsupported before I replaced it anyway for reasons of wanting faster networking (i.e., 10/100 -> 1000; 802.11bgn -> 802.11n -> 802.11ac).

Many of them are also supported by OpenWRT.

The vulnerabilities impact modem products rather than router products. If you have one of these modems, you'll need to replace the modem functionality with another modem. You can, however, place an OpenWrt router/firewall on your LAN side just past the modem.

opnsense also has hardware options.

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