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Comment by LittleTimothy | Hacker News Reader

I think you're massively over-estimating what the average consumer wants from their computer. I need a computer but you're saying I shouldn't buy a computer I should buy a laptop and then a separate monitor? Why!? What a weird thing to do. Call me crazy, but people will just buy a computer when they need a computer.

I know, I know, we could get them a laptop and a fancy display and a mechanical keyboard and we could load Ubuntu onto it for them too while we're at it so that they aren't locked in to Apple's walled garden.

That's just not what an average consumer is going to do, they're going to need a computer and buy one.

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> Why?

Because you then also have a laptop for the same price and as a bonus you can upgrade the monitore and computer separately.

It's so obvious I don't understand what you are missing there. Why do you think the market for desktop literaly cratered outside of the gaming segment?

I don't understand your rambling about mechanical keyboards and Ubuntu. You can simply buy a Macbook Pro (or god forbid a Mac mini) and an Apple screen for a cost which is roughly equivalent to this iMac and a net gain of functionality.

Average consumers stopped buying desktop two decades ago by the way.

I think you’re the one missing the “obvious” part as you call it. The other person even spelled it out.

The market for these doesn’t care about any of the stuff you mentioned. It’s really that simple.

They don’t care about the portability because they have their phone or tablet. They don’t care about upgrading because they’ll keep their device for a decade+, or they don’t own it themselves.

They don’t want to buy a separate computer and display because they don’t want that hassle.

The desktop market has cratered, sure, but that’s largely because the less complex devices have won out. This is one such device.

Try stepping outside of your own shoes before you start telling other people they’re missing obvious things.

> The market for these doesn’t care about any of the stuff you mentioned.

Yes, that’s because this market basically doesn’t exist which is indeed the Verge point.

In which case, both you and the article can’t be bothered to step outside and understand the market.

Or are you both claiming that Apple has an entire multi decade line of products it keeps refreshing without a market? And they dedicate valuable retail space to something that doesn’t sell?

This just feels like hubris of not being able to envision other people.

> Or are you both claiming that Apple has an entire multi decade line of products it keeps refreshing without a market?

Yes, pretty much.

That’s why they still use the same 2021 screen, they now only have one size, the board is basically a Mac mini glued inside a screen and they barely produce any.

It’s not even stocked at most retailers.

I am flummoxed by your train of thought here, and I really do think part of it is you’re not thinking through what goes into a product.

Firstly, look at any tear down. The boards aren’t identical. Beyond that, it still requires specific tooling, specific power delivery and engineering, as well as parts that aren’t shared.

So in your weird business view, you think Apple is doing all of that regardless of market share. For what purpose?

Then beyond that, they also spend significant money to market it, and again you believe they do so despite a lack of market?

Beyond that, they have expensive retail spaces and many products vying for attention. Yet they dedicate significant amounts of space to a product you claim has no market? You also claim they're not stocked at most retailers, yet I can walk into the Best Buy and Staples near me and they have iMacs available. So what incentive would they have?

If everything you say is true, then you must surely think Apple is both incredibly stupid and flushing billions of dollars away on a product line that isn’t selling?

How about we try approaching this the other way, and you explain why you think Apple would do such a thing, year after year?

> So in your weird business view, you think Apple is doing all of that regardless of market share. For what purpose?

Yes, very much and that’s a good question. I guess they consider the iMac to be important in the branding they want to maintain but money wise, hard to explain.

They believe in it so much they are already discounting it right now. A brand new product.

It was made completely irrelevant by the Mac Mini lineup with which is a better alternative if you want a desktop.

> Then beyond that, they also spend significant money to market it

Apple barely does any marketing for the iMac.

So you have a theory that you can’t explain and you believe in strongly, in spite of tons of evidence that counters your theory? You believe it’s simultaneously important to their brand but is a product that has no market? How does that even make sense to you, let alone others?

That’s a lot of mental hoops to jump through. Would the simpler answer just be that you’re wrong?

And Apple does the same amount of marketing for its iMac as it does for every other Mac.

Also, Where are you seeing M4 iMacs at a first party discount? Certainly not on the Apple Store.

> tons of evidence that counters your theory?

Which evidence? All the evidence points to the iMac being a massive dude slowly being phased out. I don’t think I’m jumping through weird hoops. I think you are in denial because you somehow want the iMac to be a wanted product for a reason I fail to understand (are you on the iMac team?).

> And Apple does the same amount of marketing for its iMac as it does for every other Mac.

Very funny. Apple does significant marketing for the laptop here in Europe. The iMac could at well not exist.

The difference between your opinion and theirs is that theirs is based on observation, experience, and anecdotes from people who fill that market, and yours is based on speculative extrapolation from a narrower version of observation, anecdotes, experience, based on the fact that you're suggesting it doesn't exist and they've/I've seen it existing. The people who know it to be true will read their thoughts about the market you think doesn't exist, and will agree, and the ones who haven't and don't think it should be rational will agree with you.

It does exist. Schools, kids, various platform independent in-office work computers, old people, all kinds; even introducing one layer of complexity and going down one step in prettiness just isn't worth it sometimes.

An Apple Studio display has a similar price point to this iMac.

No kidding. I got my mom to buy a laptop and external display since it wasn't much more than a mini/monitor but for some reason she hates the laptop. It's not rational, she just wants the "simplicity" of a desktop.

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