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Comment by matrix87 | Hacker News Reader

I feel bad for all of the boys out there who have the potential to specialize and get a degree but are surrounded by shitty, ignorant male role models. People who have no goals, no sort of ambition left, no desire to learn, they just sit around and pat themselves on the back for being unmotivated

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Maybe it's time for some positive representation of masculinity in our culture? Something that celebrates men (and not for being feminine) and maleness? Of course many men don't have any goals or ambition when mainstream culture will do nothing but shit on them even if they achieve something.

The problem is that so much of maleness is stuff like the male libido, which is a bad, no good, horrible, terrible thing which one must be ashamed of and stigmatized for having. They call it “the male gaze” and try to root it out of the media.

Masculinity is porn, soldiers, guns, cars, savior fantasies, and suffering.

We will get a positive representation and celebration of masculinity at around the same time when a term like “toxic femininity” gets used as much as toxic masculinity does today.

I think they're the opposite of ignorant. They know boys are angry and purposefully taking advantadge of their need for acceptance to further their own goals, be it money, power, or clout.

We have a name for groups who target and isolate vulnerable individuals for personal gain...

I wasn't just talking about the GOP. Some of these people actually are ignorant, feel bad about it, and try to keep everyone else ignorant so that they feel less bad about themselves

Some, perhaps. There's plenty of splinters who got their advice up the chain.

But I don't think the root causes that started as millionaires already and only get richer are ignorant per se. You need a certain discipline, narrative, and overall feel on the mood to properly become that successful on a grift. I doubt many of them went from rags to riches on this.

Asimov said something about this:

> There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'.

It's a global tendency, even if the effects are slightly different.

A lot of these women will be creating PowerPoint slides and holding meetings for things that don't need a meeting to pay down a 6 figure debt incurred to obtain a worthless degree. Blind ambition to meet an arbitrary metric is stupid.

I really don't think this is unique in terms of gender or generation. But it is a persistent narrative that leads a lot of wayward young men to idolize false "role model" e celebs.

Why can't the boys have female role models?

I don't know. Why are we told that representation is important and we must have diversity along every axis throughout media?

Well, if you think about it for five seconds, it's because people in general (but especially children) identify with and look up to people who look like them and share their culture. That's just human nature.

Then I guess it's a good thing men are still well (overly?) represented among world leaders, CEOs, etc. -- I'm not sure how anyone can claim there are no male role models in a world with 100% male US presidents (for instance).

"good" male role models. I wouldn't call elon musk, donald trump, nor Andrew tates good examples to follow.

Not just "look like them" and "share their culture". They have deep biological similarities, not some superficial traits.

Good question... I did. But maybe I'm just lucky

Who was your female role model? can you expand?

It's not impossible, but boys with only female role models do not develop their masculinity, which is important for self-control considering males can be physically dangerous. I believe there is a link between criminal behavior (which is mostly men) and single mothers. It's really more than a correlation, and perhaps one of the leading causes of criminality.

you think malcomx had a male role model around to provide masculinity? or about 765,432 other examples I can provide.

on one hand you are saying boys with female role models do not develop their masculinity and on the other you are saying there is a link between criminal behaviour and single mothers? this criminal behaviour is coming from their feminine side?

No, it's not a contradiction. The criminal behavior arises from males not being able to control themselves and using force to get what they want. Fathers put boys in their place and they learn to respect authority. Mothers are there to cuddle and pamper their children and this is horrible for boys and their development as dangerous grown males.

This reads like a parody of 1950s child rearing.

amazing, right??!

Look up the stats on criminals and single mothers.

what makes you think that women don't know how to put men in their place?

Poor results, I just wouldn't phrase it like who you responded to or as "putting men in their place", especially given the context was about boys and not men. Putting "men" in their place as an adult woman can sometimes be physically dangerous. And it's not clear to me how effective it would be at that point of their (the mans) development.

It's also not clear to me at all that the person you are responding to is correct about mothering being about pampering or whatever. You could easily ascribe a tendency like that to the higher likelihood for single mothers to also be more stressed or less well off and with less time to invest in doing much more than trying to placate the child in the quickest way possible. Plenty of mothers that don't pamper and fathers that do, so that claim needs a citation I would think.

> It's also not clear to me at all that the person you are responding to is correct about mothering being about pampering or whatever.

The word they were looking for is "coddle".

They don't understand what it means to be physically dangerous.

Preferring a bear over a man?

Why a father can't cuddle and pumper their boys?

Single parent households are more likely to be poor, and are likely to have less time available to care for children. Those are both things strongly associated with higher chances of the children becoming criminal. Why do you think that is not sufficient to explain things?

You can, but ultimately there are male issues that are much easier to confide with males on. Especially about women. It's no different from why women need some female role models.

Exactly, this is one of the actual problems.

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