Discarded delights: The joy of ex-library books (2021) | Hacker News Reader

Discarded delights: The joy of ex-library books (2021)

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115 pointsMrVandemar70 comments

I primarily read theology, and lots of early-to-mid-20th century Anglican theology. So, many of the books I read are out of print—and thus only available used. I’ve found that reading in a niche area tends to put some interesting copies in my lap. I have quite a few copies around that previously belonged to “famous” (at least within my little world) theologians. Many of these other copies are often ex-library, often from seminary or monastic libraries. It’s always interesting to see what libraries are getting rid of and to think about the monks or nuns who sat around reading them. (Or not, as the case may be—they were withdrawn, after all.)

My favorite is a copy of Martin Thornton’s The Function of Theology, which had been deaccessioned from the library of the Seminary of the Southwest at some point. I happened to flip to the back to glance at the loan card. It had been borrowed precisely one time—October 23, 1987—but it had been borrowed that one time by a priest who became a friend of mine in 2021 during a course at a different institution. The small world of Anglican theology! I texted him a picture of the book, and he still remembered checking it out.

I used to hang out at used bookstores regularly. Mostly to find cheap but good quality books for my kids when they were younger. I once managed to get a used copy of Paul Graham's On Lisp which was discarded from the technical library of a company somewhere.

The main point of interest is that physical items age and retain artifacts of their lives. I found a childrens book that was discarded from an American library where a girl had scrawled in pencil that she was proud that she finished it. I've seen one which was awarded to a man for being top of his class in college in the early 1900s. The bookshop I used to visit once had a book sold to him which contained a letter from Rabindrnath Tagore in the original in between the leaves of the book.

It's a fascinating feeling and quite primal.

I recently read a sci-fi book from the library. A previous borrower had jotted notes/corrections/criticisms of the author's science in the margins, in the tiniest, neatest handwriting I've ever seen. None of the "problems" they pointed out detracted from the story, but I guess they really wanted to show off their personal theories of FTL travel to whoever borrowed the book next. It was hilarious, and I'll remember the book forever because of that.

That's really cool. In some sense, it's like a precursor to internet fora.

I opened a bookshop after a long run in tech to try to slow down, and one of the pleasant surprises was the joy in accepting used book donations. I re-donate most of them, but have found some wonderful bookmarks and inscriptions in many. The words matter most, of course, but the tangible evidence of people decades or centuries ago is something that speaks to me profoundly. One inscription in a tiny book of prayers mentioned a friend passing it on after it had been placed under her deceased infant sister's chin, which was both morbid and moving. Autographs of spooks like J. Edgar Hoover conjure up other feelings. One other comment: the very old books will probably be around for a few centuries more after the newer ones have turned to dust.

> One other comment: the very old books will probably be around for a few centuries more after the newer ones have turned to dust.

Future historians will curse the 19th and 20th centuries for switching to acidic paper. Thankfully more and more books are printed on acid free paper via ISO 9706.

From my experience this seems to be an American thing. I have US-printed books that I bought brand new about 15 years ago that look 100 years old today. On the other hand the Brazil- or France-printed books are still good as new. The paper color they use in Brazil is also very different (white as opposed to yellowish brown).

This isn't every US book though, seems to be mostly the fiction kind. The tech books I have are US-printed and are holding up perfectly.

But yeah the acidic paper thing is real and a big problem. The book I’m currently reading has these rust-like vertical streaks covering every single page. I don’t know how to recover or preserve them.

To preserve acidic paper books, you might have luck with archival-grade boxes made of "buffered" material. The buffer is an alkaline material that's supposed to neutralize the acid in the paper.

what are you using for ecommerce? i need feedback on my app for booksellers if you're interested in trying it out: https://www.bookhead.net/. i'm also working on a squarespace plugin to sync a store's inventory from basil onto their website.

If you are going to collect books as physical objects, rather than their much more convenient digital versions, then it strikes me you should actually find the signs of previous interactions with that object (library stamps, marks from other readers etc) make them more interesting than pristine copies that no one has read.

That runs very much counter to how collectors actually collect books currently. The more pristine the book, the better, aside from particularly rare or valuable inscriptions.

Sure. But while I can understand this approach for rare objects which are the result of great craftsmanship (I would rather not have a crack in my faberge egg) a book is generally a mass produced article with little individual character until someone has left their mark on it.

Even still, most folks would prefer a pristine first edition than one that’s been heavily used.

Speak for yourself!

Are you actually a bot? I'm struggling to imagine a literate human who does not know this.

My name clearly states I am NOT a cyborg.

The story of a bookseller who made a fortune selling complete libraries to collectors, warts and all:

    Glenn Horowitz built a fortune selling the archives of writers such as Vladimir Nabokov and Alice Walker.

~ https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/10/28/a-controversia...

Different collectors buy different things- some like books owned by specific people, others want works (drafts, letter, editions, etc) of an author.

Pristine is for some, a book that's been lived in is worth more to others who look for margin notes.

Arguably the “lived in” copies are only notable if they’ve been owned and scribbled in by someone who is themselves notable. There’s no serious demand for books that have been scribbled in by nobodies like myself.

While that's true, and I do prefer books that actually have interesting histories, rather than being purely pristine and box-ticking, I have to admit that many collectors seem not to be, and are purely interested in box-ticking first edition first printing, pristine copies of books, with no marks, or just an author signature. Outside of the most exceptional and well-known of cases, this seems to extend to cases where other editions seem more interesting, rarer, or more notable.

Of course, this has the advantage of keeping prices down for those of us looking for those other editions and conditions, but it can at times be rather perplexing. I was once in an auction where it was evident that the auctioneer was also surprised by a case of this: in an auction with a first edition by an American trade press, and a first UK edition from a year later by a particularly notable private press, with a smaller print run, typeset and printed by hand by notable historical figures and friends of the author, and an estimate of around four times the first trade edition... the UK edition sold within estimate, and while the first edition sold for significantly more than the UK edition, vastly over its estimate.

In another case, I had a bit of trouble finding sellers online who even noted the edition of a particular 19th century book in its description if it was not a first edition, despite the second edition being at the center of a significant historical legal drama, being nominally banned and ordered destroyed, and making a mess of British blasphemy law in a case where no one, including both the government and the prosecution, wanted the publisher to be found guilty.

My guess is that many book collectors will set a particular goal, for example, collecting first editions or author-signed copies of a particular genre, set of authors, etc, and will follow that goal, rather than acquiring individual books for individual reasons.

More generally, collecting communities often seem to fall into purely seeking rarity, placing the highest demand on the items with the least supply regardless of why the supply is small. Thus at an extreme in book collecting, for example, you have collectors who see entirely uncut pages as being preferable, despite it making the book unreadable. I have a friend who is fond of antique pens who expressed disappointment that in seeking the rarest pens, the community often ended up placing the highest value on the worst: the pens with bad designs that didn't work well, the variants and colors that were particularly ugly, all the models that sold very poorly and were quickly discontinued, and are thus rarer.

True, but collecting is generally a terrible investment from a pecuniary perspective, unless you’re the mercenary type of collector who sells to people making terrible investments.

Sure, albeit I’ve definitely got some stuff that’s appreciated quite considerably in price. Not that I intend to sell it.

Yeah, speaking as someone who inherited a stamp collection, the one thing to avoid is thinking you’re in it for the resale value when you really just want an excuse to buy the object of your desire.

Personally I do like these marks. But I buy books to read, not as an investment. I recently bought a book on "How to survive being gassed" published in 1934. It had a typed A4 sheet of paper in it with a poem about how to identify the different types of gas. Humourous and probably useless but real and very alive.

I also take umberidge with the idea that digital books are more convenient. A physical book is more engaging, more beautiful, more real and more present than a digital book. All things that I find convenient when I want to interact with knowledge and art. Horses for courses I assume.

The UI of paper books is better in most ways. Ebooks don’t need separate large print editions, and have full text search. Basically every other point goes to paper books. I don’t bother to defend the aesthetics of books, because their actual utility is high, too.

They’re damn bulky, though, especially when there’s an alternative that weighs nothing. Damn bulky.

I tend to disagree, or at least argue that UI/UX is strongly subjective. I have sought out digital copies of books that I have in paper form just because I strongly prefer reading on an ereader for text. Obviously, something with graphics is likely to be better in paper.

You can't lose your place easily. Lighting isn't an issue if you buy a backlit model. Reading lying on your back or side is much easier. Traveling is easier with an e-reader. Access to wikipedia and the dictionary on the same device.

There are emotional reasons that I like paper books, but if I'm just trying to read, give me an ebook.

To add to your comments on travel, reading position, lighting, some books are just too large or heavy to lug around or even hold for long periods. There are a number of door-stopper books that I otherwise just wouldn't have read because of this.

If the medium makes the difference between me reading a text rather than not reading that text, I tend to think that makes it functionally "better".

Ebooks will be on their way to being a match when readers come with facing-page screens, spine and cover screens (I've forgotten the authors of ebooks I'm actively reading because I don't get reminded of the title & author passively by just having the book around me) and some kind of much better interface for locating and bouncing between bookmarks, which interface will probably need to not reside entirely on the main screen(s) in order to make a real difference. Still missing a lot, but that'll close maybe half the gap.

Umbrage.

The thing is, I've had a number of instances where the paper copy of a book was so poorly typeset (usually overly long lines on too-wide pages, e.g., _The Inklings and King Arthur: J. R. R. Tolkien, Charles Williams, C. S. Lewis, and Owen Barfield on the Matter of Britain_ edited by Sørina Higgins) that I actually purchased the e-book version so as to be able to read it comfortably.

*umbrage (I like when people tell me, so hoping that isn't taken the wrong way).

Otherwise, very much in agreement!

I'm guessing you don't (yet) need large type to read comfortably. When that time comes, you may gain an appreciation for the accessibility features of a good ereader.

I'm much more comfortable with a magnifying glass tbh. For most books I need my glasses and a good quality reading light though.

That can definitely work.

Do you use a handheld glass, or do you wear magnifying reading glasses? I've thought about trying glasses and probably should - they aren't expensive. I'm assuming though that I'll end up feeling sick from them because of the distortion around the center.

I have a large rectangular handheld magnifying glass. I 'think' it was designed for map reading. I only really use it for inspecting electronics though. I can get by with reading glasses when reading a book as long as the light conditions are good. A good reading lamp really helps and I didn't think it would make such a difference.

It took me a long time to get used to reading glasses though. Eventually age just forced the issue though.

You bring up a good point about physical vs digital.

I'm still not sure if my children for example, understands that when I'm staring at an iPad I'm almost always reading a book. Does a vast library in iBooks translate to them as well as the same library on physical books in a bookshelf in the house? My sense is it does not.

And when I'm gone, will anyone find any interest in my iBook library? In its highlights and notes? In the books I've read and re-read dozens of times?

Some of my fondest memories are going over my older or deceased family members' book shelves. I have never, however, gone over anyone's tablet. Part of that is because it's newer, but something about the browse-ability of an e-book misses the mark. I can't see which book is worn from being read and re-read, or brimming with notes and scribbles. In digital, it's hard to tell which books that person found significant, but in physical it's obvious by the condition (or even number of copies) of the book.

> I can't see which book is worn from being read and re-read, or brimming with notes and scribbles.

It's amusing to read that, for on one side of my family, scribbling in a book would be considered a most heinous crime! I keep any writing to the flyleaf if the book is a gift, but don't otherwise write in them. Another thing that complicates the matter in my family is that we have always been serial second-hand book buyers, and in such a case a book's physical condition is not necessarily an indication of how much it was loved by its immediate previous owner. On the other hand, my grandmother tended to insert relevant newspaper cuttings into the book for the benefit of future readers!

I'm from a books-are-sacred family, though I don't particularly subscribe to that myself. But I've never understood the idea of annotating books in the margins; I don't reread them that often, nor was I a literature student.

Your grandmother's idea sounds wonderful, though.

> And when I'm gone, will anyone find any interest in my iBook library?

Probably not, but nor will anyone else find interest in your physical library. One's collections are invaluable to oneself, but usually uninteresting to anyone else.

I donated hundreds of books when I cleaned out my parents' house. Most probably ended up in a dump or recycled.

One of my most treasured books is a copy of Goethe's _Faust_ (in translation) with notes from a nun.

My university regularly put discarded books in a cart in front of the library with a money box, so you could just take a book and put one or two euros in the box. Among other things I got a copy of Benoit Mandelbrots "The fractal geometry of nature" which I still treasure to this day.

Today's his birthday!

That's one of my treasures, too. I paid full price for a hardcover. Many of our books come from second hand dealers, often nature/history/tooling/photography foci. I'm a sucker for thematic histories, large format photography books, and well researched non fiction in general. If you like the marks on books, try postcards! I have ~20,000 of them. Not really sure why, but they're very interesting to scroll through. A card is like a little clue in to a time and place you would never otherwise think of ... logistics networks, handwriting, language, printing technology, inks, subjects of interest, urban development, architecture, fashion: sometimes with messages to boot!

My late mother was an avid reader of library books. She used to mark the books she had read by filling in the loops of the letters on the copyright page. Apparently she noticed the hidden codes that other readers used to similarly mark books they had read: a circle around page 10, a line on page 20, &c.

I wonder if the author has come across such marks?

My late father would put a little star on the last page of the book. He eventually discovered another patron was marking books in a similar fashion and that they had the same taste in books. Whenever he found the other mark he would check out that book.

Your post has omitted the punchline.

> Whenever he found the other mark he would check out that book.

I think that was sufficient.

Do people forget which books they've read? If there's something I haven't finished, the sense of incompletion stays with me forever.

Can't speak to OP's mom's experience, but I've heard of avid romance novel readers losing track of all the books they've read.

Yes. I believe they would not recognise them by cover but would think "crap I've read this before" when getting to a certain part of the plot.

I always liked the hardback editions of children’s books in UK libraries in the 70s and 80s , and have sought them out secondhand since. Favourites were the US Danny Dunn science story series - almost all of which were amazingly available in the UK, Dr Who hardback editions of the famous Target novelisations - pre-vcr the only way to access old stories (even in the Uk these were very rarely repeated). Hugh Walters 1960s/1970s sf books (passage to Pluto, journey to Jupiter, expedition Venus etc.)

Also the Agaton Sax comedy detective stories, and the largely unknown Uncle the elephant books by JP Martin.

Favorite ex-library book: "The Unix Environment" by A. N. Walker. Ex library: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NY. Cost from Alibris: $1.

Never heard of Alibris, any other good used book sites? I have bought a book from Abebooks: "Object-Oriented Programming: An Evolutionary Approach", by Objective-C creator Brad Cox.

There is a charity bookshop in my city that exclusively sells ex-library books from the city's libraries. It's very tempting to buy the books there due to them usually being in very good condition.

One of my favorites that I return to regularly and am continually fascinated by is an ex-library book, Life at Home in the Twenty-First Century. It's an "enthno-archealogical" study of about 30 families in early 2000s California.

I love the ambiance of libraries and used book stores so I tend to buy books with a little wear and tear and appreciate their uniqueness.

At the same time I'm loathe to make my own marks in books. I hadn't thought about that contradiction before.

I try to only mark if I think it'll be useful to me, or to someone in the future. I'll lightly mark the location of favorite passages in the margins (that's useful to me, at least, and minimally intrusive), record some information about some obscure reference to a location by an antiquated name that I was only able to track down in some decades-old humanities paper, mark up the TOC with information I wish it had, that kind of thing.

I don't mind most marks from previous readers. Usually I'd rather have them than not, as they're at least interesting in one way or another.

The category of used book with annotations that I don't ever like to buy is one where a previous owner highlighted or underlined seemingly half the book. There's a kind of reader out there who must highlight or underline their books the same way I compulsively select text as I read on a screen, and it wrecks the book.