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Comment by jaco6 | Hacker News Reader

An advantage of a pure EV over a hybrid is that you don’t have the maintenance liability of the combustion engine, cooling system, and transmission.

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And brakes. My brake pads rarely touch my rotors.

Not only does this (and the things you pointed out) reduce the cost of maintenance, it saves on trips to get them done, and the headaches of the pressure most put on you to get things done you don’t need, just so they can make even more money off of you.

Also, EVs on the highway (when hybrids are using the ICE) are much quieter, and have more torque.

The only downsides I have noticed are:

- Higher up front cost (though I don’t think hybrids are much cheaper)

- Heavier = more frequent tire changes (again, not sure hybrids are much better)

- Range for long road trips, resulting in having to pause for long charges, and having to plan your route in advance (definitely not a problem for hybrids)

> And brakes. My brake pads rarely touch my rotors.

I still have the original brake pads on my 2008 Prius with 150k miles. (And yes, I have them measured periodically to see if they're still good.) This is typical.

What usually kills that age of Toyota brakes is not use, but rust. I've had all 4 corners rust to death on my 2004 vintage Toyota. They use terrible metal that just cannot resist rust at all.

Is that right?

With torque blending, regen braking is blended with friction braking at low speeds (when regen braking is ineffective). Friction braking is always needed to make a full stop.

Kinetic energy is a function of velocity squared, low speed breaking damages the pads way less.

Sure but the pads are still being used frequently even with regen braking.

Friction braking is rarely needed to make a full stop. My EV only applies blended braking in specific conditions (cold temps, steep hills, and full battery) and I essentially never touch the brake pedal.

You may not touch the brake pedal but the brake pads are still being used to make a complete stop (this is how regen braking systems work, at low speeds regen is not effective so brake pads are used for the last few feet).

You’ll use wear out your brake pads way less, but they are still used very frequently (every time you make a complete stop in fact).

My mistake, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you meant that regen braking on its own wasn't strong enough to slow the vehicle down. You're right that friction brakes are applied for the last little bit to come to a complete stop and hold.

Are you sure it's not actually applying friction brakes?

I have a Model 3, and even when the driving mode is set to "Stop" (enabling one-pedal driving), I know that it's applying the friction brakes at low speeds, even when the battery is warm and not full.

Regen isn't enough to slow the car to a stop, even in ideal conditions, and it certainly can't hold the car in place.

> Friction braking is always needed to make a full stop.

In my EV6, I have a paddle on the left of my steering wheel that I use (almost) exclusively for braking. It 100% only uses regenerative braking, and I can definitely tell the difference, as its stops are much more subtle than when using the brake pedal for stopping (even when coming to a stop super gently).

More evidence that it doesn't use friction brakes: when I use the left paddle to brake, the car will sometimes edge forward (just an inch or two). With friction braking, this obviously never happens.

I'd assumed PHEVs would include regenerative braking. Do they not?

They do. PHEVs and even HEVs are very easy on their brake pads. Usually to a lesser degree than BEVs, but it is not uncommon for even traditional hybrid owners to never need brake pad replacement for their entire ownership of a vehicle.

Yes, all PHEVs have regenerative braking. I sold my Chevy Volt a few months back with 50K miles and the brakes were like brand new. It’s very possible that they’ll outlive the rest of the car.

The 'transmission' on a hybrid is often no more complicated than the 'transmission' on an EV, many (but not all... looking at you, Hyundai) are much more simple than ICE vehicles.

Also, for the duration that most new car buyers own any car, any difference of maintenance liability of even a traditional ICE vehicle is close to negligible. Most new car buyers pay for a couple of years of fluid changes, tires, and brakes... then they trade in the car. They're going to pay similar costs no matter the architecture.

but if there are higher maintenance costs a little later in the vehicle's life, won't that impact the trade-in value?

It can, but the degree to which it does in practice varies. A used Maserati with $1000+ oil changes definitely will. Failure costs of components at end-of-life usually don't, until a vehicle is approaching end-of-life. But the regular maintenance for a typical (P)HEV is mid-life is similar to other vehicles.

25 year old sedan with a Northstar engine, a couple belt and chain replacements, no significant transmission issues, no significant engine work. Regular dealer maintenance No major battery pack replacements. May not be the greenest, but I know I’m in the green. Plug-in hybrids do sound cool…

Combustion engine is a perfected tech, which can easily last 100K+ miles. EVs do have a cooling system for the battery.

EVs also have a battery which can be $20k, and electric motors which are $10k. This really makes them awful on the used market when the warranty runs out. If a used Model 3 needs a battery it is basically scrap.

but a used Model 3 doesn't! and that's the fake news here. These batteries last ages. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doAcNVuTnXU

Seriously, a YouTube video is supposed to be proof that batteries last ages? What is ages? If you provide something I can read you might have been able to change my mind.

Truth is not many want to risk buying a used electric car and the depreciation reflects that.

Generally, 10-20 years and 100K-200K miles. The US requires a warranty of 8 years and 100K miles.

For newer cars it's hard to tell for sure since the tech has improved significantly in recent years. But even the earlier cars have done better than people expected.

A quick google turns up lots of sources you can read. Here are a few:

https://unitil.com/blog/electric-car-battery-life-fact-vs-fi...

https://blog.evbox.com/ev-battery-longevity

https://unitil.com/blog/electric-car-battery-life-fact-vs-fi...

Battery costs keep coming down. We are now sub $100/kWh, and Chinese batteries are approaching $50/kWh. So a 75 kWh battery will cost less than $4000 in the not too distant future. And costs should be way more interesting when you have to replace your battery in 2040.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charted-lithium-ion-batteri...

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