Hacker News Reader

Hacker News

Comment by tim333 | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

tim333

The threats were made by Jones followers rather than Jones personally.

View on HN

Okay. But I think that undermines the argument the OP was making significantly.

"Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?"

And when one of your followers has done the deed throw them under a bus.

Did he actually call for people to make threats or use violence? Did he even imply it?

Do you apply the same standard to public figures who call Trump a fascist or a Nazi? Are they responsible for the person who shot him?

Some examples of what he said

>You’ve got parents laughing — ‘hahaha’ — and then they walk over to the camera and go ‘boo hoo hoo,’ and not just one but a bunch of parents doing this and then photos of kids that are still alive they said died? I mean, they think we’re so dumb.”

>“Why did Hitler blow up the Reichstag — to get control! Why do governments stage these things — to get our guns! Why can’t people get that through their head?” https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/22/us/politics/heres-what-jo...

Re double standards on Trump, I think people are ok with criticizing power hungry politicians, less so with parents who have had their kids killed.

The Jones case was a civil case for damages. He's not going to prison or anything - just losing some assets. Trump is free to sue people who've implied he's a nazi (maybe he could start with JD) but I don't know how sympathetic a jury would be.

We're not discussing the case generally. We're asking if the assertion that he THREATENED anyone, holds water. So far, nobody has been able to provide any evidence, that he has.

Whatever you think about the case, it should be decided with factual statements, not emotional manipulative accusations that bend the truth.

Yeah, it seems he didn't directly threaten the families.

I think that's a very different statement from "God, I hate that stupid priest. He's so meddlesome." Criticizing people should not count as incitement in a liberal society- consider whether people who told an audience that Trump was a fascist should be held accountable for the assassination attempts. This is defamation.

A court already determined he is guilty. If he thought he was innocent, he had the opportunity to present any defense he wanted. Whether or not he is at fault isn't a point of discussion because it's already been determined for a fact.

Yes, he is guilty. But he's guilty of defamation, not incitement. It is an important distinction because "I thought that was true" is a defense in a defamation case, but not in incitement- you can't say "the pope is catholic, go kill him now", regardless of whether he is actually catholic.

"He didn't present a defense therefore it has been determined for a fact that he is guilty" is not especially sound. You'd have to concede the existence of witches on the absurd end, and that everyone who makes a plea deal is guilty on the more rational end. He's guilty because he publicly made harmful defamatory statements that he privately did not believe, both of which are made clear by evidence.

If I understand correctly: if I threaten a third party based on something you’ve said, you now face legal liability?

A single person reacting that way is unlikely to make the speaker liable, but when a large crowd reacts the same way and the speaker does not make attempts to defuse the situation, then liability should be assigned.

So you’re saying that every supportive observer in every worldstar fight video should be held liable for any injuries? Not suggesting you’re wrong or right, but your approach places a novel legal burden on observers, and thus detaches it from actors, where the responsibility currently lies.

> So you’re saying that every supportive observer in every worldstar fight video should be held liable for any injuries?

Not at all - I'm saying the liability should go in the opposite direction. If worldstar fight videos incite lots of people to start fighting in the streets, then worldstar should be partially responsible unless they take actions to distance themselves from their viewers' actions.

So if Alex Jones posts on WorldStar, they’d be liable? How far does deplatforming responsibility extend in this theory?

Googling:

>To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages

So probably no in that case as there was no significant damage. Sandy Hook was different in that there were ongoing threats and harassment for years.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com