Link to the paper in the README is broken. I believe this is the correct link to the referenced paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.07231
“One training with a schedule similar to the one reported in the paper represents ≈ 30 GPU-days. We also roughly estimate that the total GPU-days used for running all our experiments to 5000, or ≈ 120k GPU-hours. This amounts to total emissions in the order of 20 tons of CO2eq.”
I am not in AI at all, so I have no clue how bad this is. But it’s nice to have some idea of the costs of such projects is.
Llama 3 70B took 6.4M GPU hours to train, emitting 1900 tons of CO2 equivalent.
1. Different energy sources produce varyings of co2
2. This likely does not include co2 to make the GPUs or machines
3. Humans involved are not added to this at all, and all of the impact they have on the environment
4. No ability to predict future co2 from using this work.
Also if it really matters, then why do it at all? If we’re saying hey this is destroying the environmental and care, then maybe don’t do that work?
Yes.
> 2. This likely does not include co2 to make the GPUs or machines
Definitely not, nobody does that.
Wish they did, in general I feel like a lot of beliefs around sustainability and environmentalism are wrong or backwards precisely because embodied energy is discounted; see e.g. stats on western nations getting cleaner, where a large - if not primary - driver of improved stats is just outsourcing manufacturing, so emissions are attributed to someone else.
Anyway, embodied energy isn't particularly useful here. Energy embodied in GPUs and machines amortizes over their lifetimes and should be counted against all the things those GPUs did, do and will do, of which the training in question is just a small part. Not including it isolates the analysis to contributions from the specific task per se, and makes the results applicable to different hardware/scenarios.
> 3. Humans involved are not added to this at all, and all of the impact they have on the environment
This metric is so ill-defined as to be arbitrary. Even more so with conjunction with 2, as you could plausibly include a million people into it.
> 4. No ability to predict future co2 from using this work.
Total, no. Contribution of compute alone given similar GPU-hours per ton of CO2eq, yes.
Except every proper Life-cycle assessment on carbon emissions ever.
>proper
>should be considered, and are
https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/mckinsey-explaine...
> Also if it really matters, then why do it at all? If we’re saying hey this is destroying the environmental and care, then maybe don’t do that work?
Although it may not the best way to quantify it, it gives a good overview of it. I would argue that it matters a lot to quantify and popularize the idea of such sections in any experimental ML papers (and should in my opinion be the default, as it is now for the reproducibility statement and ethical statement). People don't really know what an AI experiment represents. It may seem very abstract since everything happens in the "cloud", but it is pretty much physical: the clusters, the water consumption, the energy. And as someone who works in AI, I believe it's important to know what this represents, which these kinds of sections show clearly. It was the same in the DINOv2 paper or in the Llama paper.
I think it’s clear that people generally want to move to clean energy, and use less energy as a whole. That’s a gradual path. Maybe this reinforces the thinking, but ultimately you’re still causing damage. If you really truly cared about the damage, why would you do it at all?
I’m not a big fan of lip service. Just like all these land acknowledgements. Is a criminal more “ethical” if they say “I know I’m stealing from you” as they mug you? If you cared, give back your land and move elsewhere!
That's about 33 economy class roundtrip flights from LAX to JFK.
https://www.icao.int/environmental-protection/Carbonoffset/P...
Seems like a fair carbon trade.
And yes, I think the world would be better off if more people considered how their decisions impact others, if that's what you're getting at, but it's unrealistic to expect everyone to care about other people - and of course entirely impossible to account for ALL variables.
How do you come up with a ratio that you consider a fair trade?
I'm really not sure how I'd personally set a metric to decide it. I could go with the stat that one barrel of oil is equivalent to 25,000 hours of human labor. That means each barrel is worth 12.5 years of labor at 40 hours per week. That seems outrageous though - off hand I don't know how many barrels would be used during the flight but it would have to be replacing way more than several engineers working for several years.
There's a good reason oil is so hard to give up. [6.1 GJ worth of crude oil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_of_oil_equivalent) costs about $70 USD.
I guess you could get number like that if you are comparing the energy output. But that is a weird way to do it since we don't use people for energy.