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Comment by pezezin | Hacker News Reader

I agree with you. As my first boss taught me, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

But after 6 years living here, I find the image of the Japanese as perfectionists to be a myth. Sure, the old sushi master that has dedicated his life to the craft might a perfectionist; most other people are not. Take a look a the average Japanese city with its ugly buildings, chaotic street layout, and insane cabling. Or the average office or shop, with a mess of boxes and piles of documents everywhere. Or the countryside (where I live) and the abysmal state of most roads and infrastructure. Those are not the signs of a perfectionist society.

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I agree, the myth and mystery around "perfect Japan" which is funny because the west also loves its "wabi-sabi" and "ikigai" among other things. Japan in up on such a pedestal for some people, especially through the narrow lens of being a tourist or a consumer of their goods/services/media.

Heck, A LOT of things that have that desirable "made in Japan" sticker are made by abused migrant workers with very little protection and pay. They aren't even made by the "mythological perfect and careful Japanese hands."

Note: been here 15 years and I have many friends in the manufacturing industry

>Heck, A LOT of things that have that desirable "made in Japan" sticker are made by abused migrant workers with very little protection and pay. They aren't even made by the "mythological perfect and careful Japanese hands."

Same with made in Germany and the US. Actually, Made in Germany is worse.

Every consumer electronic I have labeled Made in Germany is absolutely crap. The Bosch stove has the sealing gasket wrongly mounted, the Siemens vacuum cleaner is poorly designed and built, so is the Fujitsu laptop I just sold which felt like bottom of the barrel e-waste.

Electronics from Xiaomi, Huawei, etc feels way better built and better designed than stuff labeled made in Germany.

Should've gone for Miele. Not even kidding.

What do I look like, an oil tycoon?

Their build quality means a secondhand Miele lasts longer than brand new other brands for the same price.

Warranty is still the legally required minimum of 2 years for Miele. You have no guarantee it will last longer than that. If Miele had so much confidence in their products lasting longer they'd offer longer warranties like Samsung does on their SSDs of 5 years or so.

The concept of "Miele lasts forever" is as outdated as the "German cars last forever". It used to be true in the past but we can't be coasting on that trope today.

I would go for Electrolux from second hand store, at least 15 years old. So far in my life I only bought one hoover. Still going strong after 30 years, just a new bag and filter now and then. And I had to replace the power contact once.

sabi-sabi is more of a niche practice in Japan, that's overplayed by westerners for western audiences.

More like finding a handful of people in the whole of US history making paintings by sticking pasta onto a canvas, and presenting it as some huge cultural thing.

>Take a look a the average Japanese city with its ugly buildings, chaotic street layout, and insane cabling. Or the average office or shop, with a mess of boxes and piles of documents everywhere.

They are perfectionist, just not anal about it. Their perfectionism is not about tidy small shops.

And compared to the average US city, the average Japanese city is a masterpiece, including the modern buildings and streets.

Again, they are not perfectionist, that is a myth.

Second, I don't know how the average US city is, because I have never been to the US, but I think that you really overestimate how the average Japanese city looks like. People who have never lived here think that all of Japan is like the cool neighbourhoods of Tokyo, but that could not be further from the truth.

The average Japanese city suffers from serious urban sprawl, most are just a bunch of big box stores interconnected by stroads, and little houses scattered everywhere without any kind of planning. There are plenty of old, decaying buildings everywhere and streets in pretty bad condition.

Look, I live in Misawa, Aomori. Please take a look around on Google Street View, and then tell me how much of a masterpiece it is: https://maps.app.goo.gl/d5DDV3PT6MiSNYPYA

Maybe perfectionist is the wrong word for it, but me, as a European I do feel there is some kind of (obsessive?) attention for details and (at least desire) for order in Japan cities that you don't see/feel in other places. This is my impression after 2 weeks around Japan, both cities and some country side.

There is an obsession for rules, procedures and order when it comes to people's behavior, but not the physical order of the city itself. Zoning laws and construction regulations are extremely lax, and that results in chaotic cities.

For example, the city where I live is full of farms and orchards in the center of the city itself (totally open to the street because Japanese people don't like fences), and half the streets are unpaved. That is unthinkable in my home country.

>For example, the city where I live is full of farms and orchards in the center of the city itself (totally open to the street because Japanese people don't like fences), and half the streets are unpaved. That is unthinkable in my home country.

Perhaps that home country could take a lesson or two and relax, instead of suffocating everything with rules and zoning then?

>Look, I live in Misawa, Aomori. Please take a look around on Google Street View, and then tell me how much of a masterpiece it is: https://maps.app.goo.gl/d5DDV3PT6MiSNYPYA

Compared to the average equivalent US city (all around, but especially in places like Mississipi, South Dakota, Alabama, the Appallachia, etc) this looks like Paris. Much less (essentially non comparatively) homicide, violent crime, or junkies there either.

Cant reply, but how can japan cities have sprawl? They are usually one bay between mountains and the sea. Where do you sprawl in the us-sense from there?

First of all, half the population live in either the Greater Tokyo Area, or the Keihanshin area (Kyoto, Osaka, Kobe). Those areas are very dense.

Second, it is true that they don't have much usable land (but they still have some big flat areas), but outside of the aforementioned big cities, instead of building vertically, everybody wants to have their own house. The result is sprawling cities made of a combination of little houses and narrow streets cramped together, and big box stores connected by stroads.

TIL - thanks

> Those are not the signs of a perfectionist society

I beg to differ. They just apply perfectionism to different areas compared to what you have listed.

Different cultures attract efforts to different areas.

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