The transition from GIMP 2.x to GIMP 3.0 took two decades
tomshardware.com
tomshardware.com
What Linux Desktop needed was Jasc/Corel Paint Shop Pro and its modern reincarnation Paint.NET.
But it was never made, imo.
Most tools are either too heavy and similar to GIMP, or indistinguishable from mspaint, or simple photo filters for “editing” photos.
But whatever, I'm glad it's finally here.
https://www.gimp.org/news/2024/11/06/gimp-3-0-RC1-released/
I see that a few people have submitted that link, but they don't seem to be getting much attention:
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
So this article is boosting some visibility to the original news, while having little content otherwise.
And why won't they change the name? It means not one, but two derogatory things.
The issue with any software of this complexity is tech debt. If anything, GIMP should be a big warning sign about what happens if you bet on e.g. a UI framework which moves on without you.
GTK's development and release schedule is pretty aggressive, especially with the even releases being stable and the odd releases being unstable (which no other library on the planet decided to do so). A lot of cross platform software decided to a refactor to QT because of that, and I'd argue that the problem lies with upstream GTK and its failed API stability promises along the way.
In open source projects, you cannot afford to bet on unstable UI frameworks because you don't have enough time to spend on refactors like this. If every second subminor GTK version breaks your code, it's just not possible to keep up with that.
I'm actually impressed that GIMP wasn't fully abandoned because the sheer amount of code that needed to be rewritten is massive.
I suspect if you described the architecture of the two apps without naming them, most devs would predict disaster for the latter. But as you say, it has not worked out this way; indeed, GTK has repeatedly dropped or... gimped... functionality that originally existed to facilitate productive interaction with the GIMP UI (such as fast custom shortcut keys), while Blender's UI remains bespoke and quirky, but also insanely powerful.
Of course it's gotten a life of its own since, but that wasn't a thing when GIMP picked it.
I'd argue that GTK's goal of transforming into something more modern kind of lost GIMP because it was moving too fast.
I'm not blaming GTK for that, I get it, and GNOME has its goals and everything. But they're changing technologies so fast that nobody can keep up with it outside their gitlab bubble. Just thinking of the Vala introduction and GIR, for example, makes me think of never wanting to bet on their ecosystem.
They are kind of alienating themselves with the not-invented-here syndrom and too many experimental innovations that have similar already adopted counterparts in the language ecosystem.
My projects (written by a single part time dev) can never keep up with GTK. So I think you are actually arguing against GTK when it comes to resources necessary to use GTK, without realizing it.
Inkscape is a huge development project and most open source projects are way smaller than that, maintained by less than 5 people. I'd also like to point out that GTK4 is older than 6 years by now, and the UI/input flow changes that come with it (breaking old program architectures again).
GTK broke API twice in over twenty years (2->3 and 3->4), and you can parallel-install older versions. I have never heard anyone having to install specific minor releases of GTK due to breakages in the application API (theming is a different story).
Blender’s interface is not super intuitive but I hear once you learn it the UI is good. On the other hand, Gimp felt to me like having a lot of rough edges that would always annoy me.
I also used Gimp around that time. It was already quite old. Despite all the functionality, it felt clunky and I wondered why they couldn't use Photoshop's UX - Adobe had already spent millions figuring it out for them.
My guess is that Blender is an effort by artists who created software to help them, and Gimp is an effort by software engineers who created what they feel is a "good enough" open source alternative.
...and then I tried Photoshop for the first time. It was every bit as clunky, but made up for that by also being sloooooow (at least on whatever OS X PowerPC machines the lab had back then). Couldn't figure out why anyone used it.
...then I watched someone who actually knew how to use it use it. It was still slow, still clunky, but they made that weird UI dance.
There are still plenty of apps like that. Particularly when you get into stuff like A/V where no amount of UI glitz will paper over the reality that a few poorly-chosen commands can bring the beefiest machine to its knees. You either spend the time learning how to use the software on its own terms, or suffer.
I first used Blender around 2005/2006.
GIMP was my go-to ever since Paint Shop Pro was acquired by Corel (in 2006 sigh!). Then a few years back I switched fully to Mac and GIMP became borderline unusable, specially at high resolutions. Ever since I'm a bit lost when it comes to picking a new raster graphics editor. Maybe I should try Paint Shop Pro again! The pricing seems to be reasonable.
That is a huge difference.
One is part of GNU, and one isn't. Not even being flippant.
Being a GNU project brings with it all kinds of political baggage that gets in the way of developing good UI/UX.
Blender has the advantage that its commercial competitors are just as bad or worse. GIMP competes with everything from MS Paint to Photoshop so the standards are different.
It also helps that Photoshop's bizarre non-standard UI has been taught for decades now. Access to some tools and features is a little better than in the ooen source versions but it's still a remarkably terrible UI for a tool used so commonly.
And it sucks at basic things because its devs deliberately wanted it to be like that. Go ask them why you have to do the thing you mentioned or why it is easier to draw a circle in frigging MS Paint than with GIMP without them turning ultradefensive. Yes, it has happened to me - was heavily downvoted at r/linux some years ago (and at Lemmy like a couple weeks ago) only because I mentioned this.
GIMP has serious UX flaws its devs are not humble enough to recognize that for some reason and it hurt GIMP so much for so long. It "sucks" not because lack or resourcesz lack of time to work on it or lack of manpower,as they want to frame it - but lack of humbleness from its devs.
On the bright side it seems this can be the end of that stupid mentality as they are welcoming new devs and gathered a UI/UX team.
I have a feeling that this new version will have all the same issues.
There are two tools: BoringThing and Ninja Sex Death Cult. They both accomplish the same task, but I can recommend one to friends and family without immediately having to explain the name. So I'll use and recommend BoringThing.
This is very much the same notion that comes up whenever CockroachDB is mentioned. IIRC at one point they had a "white-label" project generator where you could come up with your own name and branding, and it would bake it into the checked out sources. It might make sense to create one for the photo editor as well.
Edit: Ninja Sex Death Cult is a pretty good band name though!
So I think it is worth changing the name in this case. Actually being a slur is a problem, in stark contrast to another recent example, where as far as I can see the reasons around changing Git’s ‘master’ branch name are totally artificial - the word ‘master’ is of course not a slur, and despite claims that it necessarily invokes the idea of slavery, it clearly has a multitude of uses that have nothing to do with slavery, such as ‘master recording’ or ‘masters degree’ so the idea that the word by itself is ‘not inclusive’ is quite baseless in my opinion.
So being a slur is a real problem in a way that being the name of a slightly unpleasant insect (like CockroachDB) or hypothetically (but not really) invoking the idea of slavery really shouldn’t be.
I don't really have an argument, I'll just point to this search result page and you can dive deep into the lore if you'd like to (mentions of GIMP will also appear in some threads): https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
In particular, I’m not going to introduce the Gimp to my ten-year-old son who is interested in art and gamedev, simply because I feel like the meanings/slang are a bit age-inappropriate to discuss and I don’t want him to inadvertently offend anyone.
Just find some name that conjures some pretty image like ”GNU Constellation” or whatever and be done with it.
When a bad faith message is "misinterpreted", it's because the speaker was not interested in communicating successfully in the first place.
There exist two things:
1. A name which amuses the developers by honoring an uninteresting bit of historical trivia.
2. A name which contributes to the project's health and success by attracting new users.
One of these things must be selected as more important than the other.
As far as whether GIMP, in and of itself, succeeds or fails, pretty much no one cares. If GIMP vanished, and the practical value lost to the world was big enough, some new project would spring up to take its place. Maybe Krita would expand its scope. The Blender team sure has bank to play with. Whatever.
But what lots of people do care about is the success of open source in general. When software is expensive and closed, fewer people get to use it, and the fewest of them are screwed if what they need is too niche. When software is free and open, more people get to use it, niches become less niche, and niches that remain niche can be filled by anyone with enough DIY motivation. And because all of the benefits of open source rely on a large user community, attracting users is very important, both to individual projects and the whole community.
And right now, the solution the open source community has to offer the world is an embarrassment. This is bad. The GIMP project is selfishly pissing in the water supply the entire open source community is trying to build. No one is going to take that trivially.
I'd recommend looking up "gimp" in an image search, and not dismissing valid concerns as trivialities.
On the note of misinterpretation, I'd recommend looking the word "gimp" in a dictionary[1], which offers this:
gimp(n.): 1. offensive : a disabled person
The "explanation" that GIMP stands for GNU Image Manipulation Package works if you're an edgy 13-year-old. Beyond that, any sane person would question the wisdom of using that particular acronym (and why not go for BOOBS or FATCOCK if you really don't care).
Why don't you get off your kink-shaming horse and use Google, from a private window or friend's machine (because I don't know what's going on with your search history either).
Finally, saying "You got BDSM stuff when you looked for this software package? Oh, you must be one of those people, I get nothing like that" is a sure way to get people to never use the software in question.
That's beside the point that you are not earnest here by using an niche search engine to say what you "got".
Here's a Google search for "gimp" from my work machine: https://imgur.com/a/E5M5wHF
Thankfully, I'm working from home. One could literally get fired if this showed up on a monitor in the office. Prison in some countries if kids see that in school too.
But sure, it's not an issue for you, so what's the problem?
Also, what makes you think of a disabled person, when you are in front of GIMP ?
This looks like obsession (or lack of homonymies, which are quite common in french, but maybe not in some 'simpler' languages ?)
If you missed the offensive part, look up "gimp suit" for many more interesting results.
However, in my post, you can replace "disabled persons" with "guy in mask permanently", its meaning stays the same.
You can be coy all you want, software named BIGFATCOCK isn't going to be used in K12 setting or government/corporate environments in English-speaking countries, and neither is GIMP.
To get things out of the way: BIGFATCOCK does not mean anything offensive in languages other than English, and there's nothing wrong with big, fat cocks.
It's just a bad name for e.g. spreadsheet software, as the established meaning of the name has nothing to do with the functionality of the software.
Same with GIMP. You can stick fingers in your ears and scream "la la la" all day long, and wonder why GIMP isn't picking up steam like Blender did for the next 20 years — your call.
But you know, the real question is : how the hell would you know such slang
I do not care
Compare and contrast:
-"Hey Lauren, check out this new blender I got yesterday!"
-"Hey Lauren, check out this new gimp suit I got yesterday!"
Or:
-"Hey Mary, the facilities put a new blender in the kitchen area, I just tried it, and really enjoyed it! Give it a go, I know you're into that kind of stuff."
-"Hey Mary, the facilities put a new gimp suit in the kitchen area, I just tried it, and really enjoyed it! Give it a go, I know you're into that kind of stuff."
There's a bit of a difference, see.
You people thinking that kink shaming is a great way to popularize a graphics editor named after the said kink will never cease to amaze me.
The answer is: I googled "gimp", and things other than the graphics editor came up. Curious, huh?
>I do not care
Oh, but you do. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here, typing nonsense.
"I do not care" is wonderful phrase that adds nothing to the discussion 100% of the time, because the set of people interested in what you, personally, do not care about is as empty as the informational content of your comment.
I had to go to page 9 (!!) to get something unrelated with the software: "noun verb (used without object) to limp; walk in a halting manner: a sprain that made her gimp for weeks."
Terrible indeed.
Google, helpfully, explained to me:
"People also ask"
"What is a GIMP?" Meaning of gimp in English
"an unpleasant or stupid person: I can't stand that gimp. US informal offensive. a person with a physical disability, especially one that affects someone's legs. GIMP | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary
What does the slang word "gimp" mean?
In any of its meanings, deeply insulting, unpleasant, or otherwise, (a stupid person, a person with a physical disability, a sadomasochistic sexual partner, a trimming, a fishing-line), spelt ...
See: https://imgur.com/a/aOXz7D2
>Terrible indeed.
Terrible reading comprehension, I presume?
Try putting "gimp" into image search (in a fresh browser / private window, to avoid seeing personalized search results).
Also, try looking it up in a dictionary.
One needs to be an incredible gimp to not get the point by now. Have your development been gimped in childhood?
(I hope you won't find this offensive just because I called you a gimp, since you see nothing negative about the word otherwise)
A lot of the developers are from Europe and it's imperialist for these American activist to force American language standards on everyone.
Nobody is forcing anything, it's just that if you want people in the US to use this software, you should call it something else.
That's beside the point that "gimp suits" aren't offensive, they're a perfectly fine kink and an element of BDSM. Just very much NSFW.
And GIMP's avatar very alluding to the gimp suit isn't helping either.
My concern is that non-native speakers still use dictionaries and search engines, so easily learn about the meanings of words.
Additionally, I’ve tried to promote the GIMP in educational environments but the fact remains that teachers and parents are often averse to using the name.
- (informal offensive) an unpleasant or stupid person:
- (informal offensive) a person with a physical disability, especially one that affects someone's legs
- (informal) a limp (= a way of walking slowly and with difficulty because of having an injured or painful leg or foot )
- a person who gets sexual pleasure from being hurt or treated badly
And it's not like this is super obscure or anything. The "most influential film of the 90s", Pulp Fiction, literally had a character that was "the gimp". This is pretty mainstream.
This is along the lines of "Hey co-worker, I found the best text editor the other day. It's called pizdă, you should give it a try! Pizdă seems like it would help you!"
But hey, GIMP is taking it back (https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-...) any day now. It's only been 25+ years. Any day now.