California votes 'no' on measure to ban forced prison labor | Hacker News Reader

California votes 'no' on measure to ban forced prison labor

washingtonpost.com

18 pointsnovia21 comments

> Nuñez said there were misconceptions about Proposition 6 that may have affected how people voted. The legal jargon used on the ballot, like “involuntary servitude,” could have made it difficult for voters to understand, he said.

No, voters understood that prison is supposed to hurt a bit.

> prison is supposed to hurt a bit

Why?

Prison is a punishment. Punishments are supposed to hurt. It may not be a physical pain but it also shouldn’t be a good time.

Apparently there's a fine line between slavery and "not having a good time"...

This is the first I’ve heard of this line. Where is it exactly?

Well, in my opinion, 1) you have to feed yourself in real life, you should pull your weight in prison too, and 2) the whole reason you're there is that you did something presumably wrong, and the consequences for that have to suck if they're going to motivate you to not do it anymore.

I think he means that, if prison hurts a bit, so what, it’s prison.

Can you make an argument for why prison should not hurt at all? Feel free to define “hurt.”

Because America is a brutal society uninterested in progress or decency. Just look at the per capita incarceration rate and the number of likely innocent executed people.

Maybe they could have used the word "gulag".

Punitive punishment is unproductive, not to mention immoral and reprehensible, if the ostensible goal is rehabilitation when the prisoner will eventually be released.

That's just one of several goals.

You're not saying anything specific or anything of substance. America isn't interested in rehabilitation, it's interested in punitive retribution and maximizing suffering.

Well, I think rehabilitation is on the list, but deterrence, incapacitation, and justice are also on there.

It's hard to make a case that deterrence works with the US prison system.

In G20 countries the US imprisons more per capita than others and yet still has higher homicide rates (etc).

It might be a goal or a stated desirable .. but it's clearly not working as such.

I think it's very easy to make that case. Look at shoplifting in San Francisco. When it's not prosecuted, it explodes.

Why hasn't it exploded in London and other places that lack US prison incarceration numbers?

It's certainly a subject more complex than the simple minded thinking you're providing here.

There could be any number of differences. Why do you think shoplifting exploded in San Francisco once progressive prosecutors stopped prosecuting it?

Definitely exploded in London, especially post-covid. Source; used to work for a supermarket. Shrinkage has exploded and staff are rightfully told not to intervene because some of them get quite stabby.

Now they’re going to have to incarcerate more people to make up for the lost revenue

Um, they voted against banning it. That means that forced prison labor is still perfectly legal...

That is Proposition 36: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/05/california-p...

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