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Comment by michaelt | Hacker News Reader

Isn't ham radio no-encryption-allowed, no-commercial-use-allowed?

Sort of, yes, but it's quite a bit more nuanced than that.

The actual rules say you're not allowed to obscure the meaning of a message. Use of encryption itself is not specifically prohibited, but you're not allowed to hide the information being sent. So, "encryption" is technically allowed for things like authentication and signatures, under most interpretations of the rule.

It is correct that you're not allowed to use your ham license for any commercial purpose. But again, there are narrow exceptions: a teacher getting paid to teach a class on amateur radio or science in general can transmit to demonstrate the technology, or an astronaut or military member making contacts with amateurs for goodwill purposes or as part of an exercise.

at the risk of this not flying well with some ham people here but i'd say the heck with those regulations i'm encrypting and that's the end of the story it's called clandestine for a reason after all

"Not flying well" has nothing to do with it. If you are transmitting on the amateur bands without a license, that's illegal. If you do it with any regularity, you are causing interference and some hams are better than you'd think at locating sources of unwanted interference.

There are plenty of other anything-goes bands for you to use, there's literally no reason to do your pirate radio on the ham bands. Except to get those warm fuzzy counter-culture feels I guess.

then let's go off-ham

That's the tricky part... if you're going for legal and license-free you're pretty much left with the ISM bands and very limited transmit power. There's nothing stopping you from getting a real spectrum license and narrowband licenses in the 2m and 70cm bands aren't actually that expensive but there's also equipment certification requirements, generally.

The ‘no encryption’ rule in ham radio is intended to encourage experimentation and openness. Ham radio has always been about exploring, learning, and sharing knowledge, much like open-source software. If transmissions are encrypted, it becomes nearly impossible for others to decode, learn from, or experiment with them. The idea is that anyone with the right knowledge of the protocol should be able to communicate with anyone else on the airwaves, supporting the spirit of why this spectrum is reserved.

That said, balancing this with modern needs for security and privacy is a real challenge. Good communication protocols today are designed with these protections in mind, and the inability to use encryption arguably limits what amateur radio enthusiasts can do with newer radio technologies.

Privacy, however, has traditionally not been part of ham radio—this is why you’re required to identify yourself with a call sign, and contact info is publicly available. The identity of the sender is expected to be open. Maybe there’s room to allow for some privacy around the content of the message itself, but the sender’s identity should still be clear. I’m not sure what the right balance is, but simply allowing complete encryption that hides the message, the transmitter’s identity, and the transmission protocol itself doesn’t seem to align with the purpose of amateur radio.

The ‘trash bands’ (ISM bands) are probably a much better place for experimenting with full-bore encryption and privacy. From these experiments, we might learn a balanced approach that could be backported to the amateur spectrum, preserving the spirit of why these bands exist while adapting to modern privacy needs.

Signatures are okay though.

And you can do encryption, when you have to control remote devices which belong to you.

and internet still can be non commercial.

It is. That doesn't disallow mesh networks, but Gemini would be off-limits due to TLS. Gopher would be OK.

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