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Comment by computerthings | Hacker News Reader

But when "getting away from them" actually means belittling them, berating them, while cuddling with the corporations that exploit them ("you" doesn't mean you personally here, of course), you're not actually away from them. You're in their face 24/7, increasing resentment. And if you take their taxes, the value their work produces, or the fear of unemployment their unemployment keeps alive, respectively, while also talking down to them in their absence to an echo chamber, you are so not ignoring them.

And mind, the whole campaign was based on "Trump is worse". That is also hardly ignoring someone.

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>But when "getting away from them" actually means belittling them

That's not what I meant by "getting away from them". It's just like Germany in the 1930s: the smart people got out and moved somewhere else before the SHTF. It's the same thing I did: I left the USA. I don't see things getting any better there in my lifetime, and I didn't want to be around the angry MAGA people, so I left.

To me the Holocaust is a gaping abyss in the history of Europe we still can't even fully fathom, much less process. The trauma from it, of the suffering, of the sheer vast absence, and even of the guilt, lingers on, shapes us today in ways we can't even fully see, much less escape.

I don't mean this as finger-wagging at you or anyone; it's so easy to tell people to stay and fight somewhere where you're not. The Nazis could have prevented early on, later on staying couldn't really change anything, it was just another life destroyed in the maw. So yes, good on those who got out. But also good on those who stayed and fought. Personally, as much as I would love to run away from my own country sometimes, I know that wherever I end in, I will have even less influence than here, as infinitely little influence as that may be. And wherever I'd end up, it would just be an even smaller ship in the same rough waters that seem to be engulfing the world.

In the case of the US, it's arguably the most powerful country that is still somewhat free. The Nazis were stopped in a world war, which they started with no real need. If they hadn't started the war, or if they had won it, or if there hadn't been any other power that isn't also totalitarian that could have conceivably challenged them -- as is the case with the US -- then they might still be in power.

It was close enough back then, if the US falls into that hole, with all the weapon and surveillance tech that exists today, I just don't see any "outside" that could help, or be safe. There could be countries poor enough in resources that get left alone long for me to get old in them, at best, but should I have children, they'd be be up for grabs by whatever is being cooked now. That's basically why I even care about US politics as non-American. When that particular tower falls, it might blot out the sun. If not forever, then for long enough that it simply must never be found out IMO.

Sorry I didn't mean to be this dark, but I mulled this stuff over so much, and this is what I think about it, what I can't help but think about it.

To be fair, I honestly don't believe the US is going to be a repeat of Nazi Germany, at all. I think it's going to resemble Argentina more. Nazi Germany was a warmongering, expansionist society that literally wanted to take over and annex eastern Europe as "lebensraum" ("living space") and turn its peoples into slaves. The MAGA US is much more isolationist; if anything, it's an echo of post-WWI US. So no, I don't think some kind of repeat of the Holocaust is coming (at least not in the US), just some really lousy economic times and a generally unpleasant society to live in (which, to me, it already has been for some time: mass shootings, political division, etc.).

I got tired of dealing with that, and found a society I enjoyed living in much more, so I found a job there and moved there. If someone wants to stay in the US and try to make it better, more power to them, and I hope they succeed. I'm not that young any more and just want to live in a nice place in relative peace, and the US was no longer that place (and, in my view, stopped being that place around 2000).

May I ask which place you choose? I'm not from the US, but I really would also love to find and live in a somewhat more friendly and "welcoming" society. :)

I moved to Tokyo, Japan. I'm not sure "welcoming" is the best descriptor for Japanese society, but "peaceful" is a pretty good description of the culture, unlike what I see in America these days.

If you're looking for a place where you can blend into the culture and easily make local friends, it's probably not a great choice, but I could say the same about many, many places (I frequently read articles about US expats complaining about this in western Europe, and frequently moving back), but if you can get a good job here and don't mind a degree of social isolation and can learn enough of the language to get by, I think it's a good choice. It's not an easy place to move to for westerners, however, by most accounts (for social reasons, not logistical/administrative ones). Personally, I didn't have too much trouble, but I know I'm not typical. If you're a tech worker (this is HN after all) and can get a good tech job here, it's really easy to move in, as far as the visa is concerned.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I already thought about going to at least visit Japan, it sounds like a good place, maybe I'm going to visit and see if could think about living there permanently.

Tell that to the thousands of people dumped out of helicopters with CIA assistance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War

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