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> If you don't opt out, they have full unencrypted device backups, chat logs, photos and files.

Also full disk encryption is opt-in for macOS. But the answer isn't that Apple wants you to be insecure, they just probably want to make it easier for their users to recover data if they forget a login password or backup password they set years ago.

> real-time location data

Locations are end to end encrypted.

> Also full disk encryption is opt-in for macOS. But the answer isn't that Apple wants you to be insecure, they just probably want to make it easier for their users to recover data if they forget a login password or backup password they set years ago.

"If you have a Mac with Apple silicon or an Apple T2 Security Chip, your data is encrypted automatically."

The non-removable storage is I believe encrypted using a key specific to the Secure Enclave which cleared on factory reset. APFS does allow for other levels of protection though (such as protecting a significant portion of the system with a key derived from initial password/passcode, which is only enabled while the screen is unlocked).

Yeah its a bit nuanced. You're correct encryption is automatic, but the key is unprotected unless you enable FileVault, which is the opt-in bit I was talking about.

So by default it is easy to recover data on a mac.

> They made a big fuss about protecting you from Facebook and Google, then built their own targeted ad network.

What kind of targeting advertising am i getting from apple as a user of their products? Genuinely curious. I’ll wait.

The rest of your comment may be factually accurate but it isn’t relevant for “normal” users, only those hyper aware of their privacy. Don’t get me wrong, i appreciate knowing this detail but you need to also realize that there are degrees to privacy.

> What kind of targeting advertising am i getting from apple as a user of their products?

https://searchads.apple.com/

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/control-how-apple-del...

  In the App Store and Apple News, your search and download history may be used to serve you relevant search ads. In Apple News and Stocks, ads are served based partly on what you read or follow. This includes publishers you’ve enabled notifications for and the type of publishing subscription you have.

so just stocks, apps and news? their hardware quality unsnarl me with their performance per watt every time i need to flee from civilization and program Java on Nepalese caves for _THREE_ days without plugging into a power outlet. i accept the compromise and their word on my data!

/s

appreciate you engaging in the discussion in good faith. This seems pretty “boring”, but i agree it’s definitely targeting advertising.

Not sure about anyone else, but

“we may use data from you choosing to use our apps, to target ads at you in our apps”

just doesn’t quite hit the same as

“we’ll track your web browsing habits via rats nest of social media buttons, and tracking pixels embedded in every major website, to sell highly targeted adverts on every major website, and give indiscriminate filtering capabilities capable of filtering to populations sizes as small as 4 or 5 individuals, to anyone that pays us a few cents”.

It's up to you. Both companies are selling ads, and both companies know personalized ads sell better. Both are mediating their ad business with total control and arguing that it's unsafe to give competitors this info despite the fact that it's totally safe for them to collect it as a first-party. And the cherry on top, both Apple and Google are unfairly abusing their dominant position as platform-holders to collect data on their users solely for a marketing advantage.

Feel whichever way you want about it, but I cut Apple out of my life years ago when they made it clear service revenue was their goal. Windows became insufferable after Microsoft tried the same thing, and my time using iOS/MacOS intermittently makes me very glad I didn't invest in an equally-degraded experience.

They have not been punished because they have not abused their access to that data.

Some might call this abuse: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42069588

There's no appreciable difference between how much abuse is being done by Apple, Google and Facebook. But somehow people fall over themselves to make excuses for them when it's Apple.

It's disingenuous to compare Apple's advertising to Facebook and Google.

Apple does first party advertising for two relatively minuscule apps.

Facebook and Google power the majority of the world's online advertising, have multiple data sharing agreements, widely deployed tracking pixels, allow for browser fingerprinting and are deeply integrated into almost all ecommerce platforms and sites.