At ‘Hacker Hostels,’ Living on the Cheap and Dreaming of Digital Glory | Hacker News Reader

At ‘Hacker Hostels,’ Living on the Cheap and Dreaming of Digital Glory

nytimes.com

141 pointsgshakir111 comments

I'd like to set the record straight about the nature of Chez JJ, which I feel, was very strongly misrepresented in the NYT article. What sets Chez JJ (and other community houses) apart from hostels and dorms is our family-like atmosphere. By welcoming guests into our home we are welcoming them into our family. They have become our friends and our co-founders. Startup life is an emotional roller coaster. As a community, we support each other through the trials and tests of life in Silicon Valley.

More than half of Chez JJ residents who have applied to YC have been accepted. Maybe it helps that we grill each other. Or maybe it helps that we help each other relax in order to see the big picture. Or because our residents don't have to waste as much time on the minutiae of living because of what we provide. Maybe it's a form of self selection. It is a relevant point that living in group communities is more cost effective than living alone. When we all pitch in towards basic needs we are able to have a higher standard of living.

We have weekly professional cleaners and subscribe to Farm Fresh, an organic vegetable delivery service. We provide coffee, tea, pancake mix, cereal, soymilk, and all the fresh fruits and vegetables you can find in our garden. We have regular dinner parties, and breakfast brunches. We have movie nights and hackathons and play board games. And we work closely with the owners of each of our houses know exactly what we are doing and are completely supportive.

http://chezjj.com

I agree that Chez JJ was highly misrepresented. To compare to college dorms is superficial, it completely lacked the real essence of what makes the boarding at Chez JJ really special, the family-like atmosphere that creates emotional support for everyone in the hacking industry, and a great atmosphere to bounce ideas off each other. I felt that the article was written to laugh at people and their sub-par living conditions and start-up failures. It sorely diminishes the hard work and achievements that are continuously produced through the residence and the genuine care that is put in by the captains. It made Sasha sound like a callus bitch and the boarding sound filthy. Makes you feel that journalism cannot be trusted. LL

Keyword: New York Times, Crammed Into Cheap Bunks, Dreaming of Future Digital Glory

You're still making it sound like college dorms. They too are designed exactly to promote 'family-like atmosphere that creates emotional support' and one to 'bounce ideas off each other.' That's why they're such a unique and memorable experience. You are just choosing to list the positive things aspects of dorm living and ignore those brought up in the article.

I hope it didn't sound like I'm callous. The fact that Chez JJ is selective is a big part of what makes us so special. If I let in just anyone, the house might be full of partying fratboys and boring tourists. Instead, I bring together a group of people who share ideas, form lasting friendships, and even hire each other. Even if I accept a non-tech person, it's always because I feel he/she meshes well with the house, brings positive energy, and contributes to the family atmosphere. I literally look forward to seeing all my residents in the living/dining rooms every night.

I think the article was a great introduction. This is coming from someone who knows nothing about it but we run similar programs in Atlanta (tasteless plug - www.juniorengineer.us). These things are not well understood by the mainstream. The culture needed to create stellar developers and awesome startupx and products is a conundrum to some and is only recently being analyzed because of the success of accelerators like Y-combinator and Tech stars. People who are unfamiliar with these concepts need points of reference so don't beat them up too bad

Faruq Hunter

The problem with the misrepresentation in the article is that unlike other hacker houses, Chez JJ is pretty damn close to spotlessly clean. It's why we pay professionals to do it. And one of our houses was actually 50% female.

It's hard to make people envision something else, once the words are out there, but we really aim to make life as frictionless as possible for our guests.

I stayed at Chez JJ Menlo Park for a month (heck, I'm the one in the picture!) and while I agree with the other posters that $30/night for a shared room is not competitive, the reason I stayed so long was for the people. It was awesome to come home every night from my internship -- there was ALWAYS something going on. And I made some good friends.

Would I do it long-term? Probably not. Did it work for me? Absolutely.

The American dream is (or was?) to own a mansion in the suburbs, living in isolation. I wonder whether the people living in this environment change their American-dream target to something more communal. Maybe some hope to find it at work, but that is tough given all of the constraints at work (e.g., worrying about ranking and rating with your peers). But if you don't get access to social and human capital in real life, you can at least find it here or on reddit.

I admire these people who are willing to live in a 10-person dorm room while setting up their business, but the fact three "Hacker Hostels" have sprung up feels like a symptom of SF & SV being so over-hyped and incorrectly positioned as the only place innovation will occur with less friction. Am I wrong or just missing something?

What real significant tangible benefit are these people getting that compels them to live like this and pay a relatively high cost for the privilege? $1,200/month or less gets you your own private room in a shared apartment in NYC, Boston, or just about anywhere else.

It's really hard to know what the real benefit of SF & SV without being here.

Why do people go to clubs to dance? You can do it anywhere even at home, by yourself. But it's just more fun to do with other people who love to dance too.

I go to cafes here and it's not unusual to see people coding, discussing startups, practicing their pitch. Almost everybody I know is building something. Not working for a big company is like a badge of honor.

Nobody is claiming that the Bay Area is the only place for innovation but it is where most innovation happen.

> Why do people go to clubs to dance? You can do it anywhere even at home, by yourself. But it's just more fun to do with other people who love to dance too.

That's honestly the most compelling argument I've heard for SF/SV.

As someone who lived in the Bay area and moved away, I can affirm to that. There is a vibe in the Bay area that you don't get in other places. I sort of felt it in a few areas of Manhattan (near NYU and DUMBO). But outside of these parts, I don't feel it. I moved out of NYC ... I'm less than an hour away. The scene feels DEAD.

That said, I'm not planning on moving to SF/SV any time soon. I'm a bit older now ... getting ready to nest, buy a house, etc. I have friends who have bought starter homes in the Bay for the price of mansions in other parts of the US. I might be making a mistake but that's my plan too.

I can't see how you would be making a mistake. To each their own. I love the Bay not just for the business environment, but for the cultural environment, which is just about as unique as the entrepreneurial environment.

I feel confident that I could meet dozens of new cool and interesting people a month if I wanted to. I don't know if I would click as much with people in other locales (not even NYC - too neurotic for me).

Could you elaborate? I'm really curious as to what the appeal of SF/SV is.

> Why do people go to clubs to dance?

Because they want to get laid?

Again, something these people can simulate at home :)

Or can do without going to a club. There's more than one way to find a mate.

Those are shit clubs. Seriously - there are way better places to pick people up than some loud annoying uncomfortable expensive nightclub. Good clubs are about music and dancing.

The article really misrepresents Chez JJ. We have a professional cleaner come in every week and we cover food, including an organic vegetable subscription box from Farm Fresh. We're not like frat boys -- this is our home and we choose to let people in.

I didn't necessarily think that it's dirty (although the article implies that it's untidy). I had no idea food was thrown in apart from the occasional cooked meal. If food is included, am I going to be meeting > 2,000 calories a day (or whatever the recommended is)? From the Airbnb listing it looks like only breakfast is included, not every meal like your comment suggests.

My original point really wasn't about cleanliness or food, but about the true, measurable value that SF/SV brings. I don't know why people are compelled to travel from (for example) Toronto to live in a single dorm room with nine strangers, some or all of whom may snore. I imagine the people who stay will likely have their freedoms greatly restricted, even down to their choice of sleep schedule. I can only imagine the alternative would result in people disturbing each others' sleep.

The whole "gotta be in SV/SF" mentality seems to be a product of massive amounts of hype that's driving these people to live in such relatively poor conditions for a relatively high amount. I just don't understand why people are acting like this.

hahahah, I wish I could afford to feed every guest for every meal, but we haven't reached that level of success yet. For now, only breakfast and the Farm Fresh veges are available.

Quiet hours start after 10 PM or as soon as people start heading to bed. We do occasionally have snorers, and provide ear plugs. Everyone seems to do well on multiple sleep schedules so long as late movement towards bed is sufficiently quiet.

We choose our locations based on easy access to public transportation and easy access to hacker circles. The prices are higher because the demand is higher. There are community houses everywhere, and I occasionally see rooms for rent in East Palo Alto community houses. There are many around, and it isn't just for hype. It's very expensive to live here and it gets easier when living in groups.

Regardless, this is an interesting phenomenon and I wonder whether the luster of SF and SV will continue or correct. The fact there's a market for bunk beds in a 10-person room is intriguing.

I'm not entirely convinced of the merits of this 10-person dorm for twice the cost of a room on Craigslist in the same neighborhood, but my skepticism (a deep, penetrating British skepticism!) is for something I've not tried.

It's not twice the cost of rooms on craigslist in the same neighborhood. Those require a lease, a deposit, setting up and paying for utilities etc. etc. etc.

If you want to compare it to something, compare it to airbnb listings - and this is perfectly in line with market rates. Typical rooms cost $80-120+ if you want your own room. A shared room at $40 makes a lot of sense - if you are ok with those living conditions.

The article gave the impression that some people live there for months ("others settle in for months"). Even so, there are rooms available for <$600 in that neighborhood on CL. The deposit isn't an expense and utilities etc aren't going to be another $600/month unless something sketchy is going on.

I did a quick search on Airbnb for private rooms in the Castro neighborhood (which is where their SF location is) that don't exceed $40/night and there are 34 results. [1] This "hacker hostel" isn't in line with market rates if they're putting 10 people in each room.

For reasons I cannot fathom, if I bump the max price for the above search up to $45, only eight listings are returned.

[1] http://www.airbnb.com/s/Castro--San-Francisco--CA?room_types...

None of those listings are in the Castro, and most of them are temporary sublets.

I agree with your larger point 100%.

>> $1,200/month or less gets you your own private room in a shared apartment in NYC, Boston

In much of the US, $1,200/mo will buy you a house (or rent one). $1,200/mo is a fairly high rent for a 1-bedroom in much of the US; a private room in a shared apartment would obviously be correspondingly less.

$1,200/month goes a long way in the bay area, too, if you have any idea what you're doing at all.

As a graduate student at Berkeley, I had my own room in an apartment with a roof deck and uninterrupted bay view for $400/mo on a month-to-month lease in a great neighborhood. This was 6 years ago, but the same guy was still subletting the same rooms for the same price, when last I spoke to him.

When I moved to the peninsula to work at Apple, I had a small house with a yard and fruit trees in the nice part of Menlo Park on a month-to-month lease for $1000/mo. This was 4 years ago, but similar deals can definitely still be found (the same house was rented for $1300/mo recently).

Up to a year ago, my wife and I shared a lovely house with 1.5 acres in Palo Alto for $1800/mo, though we did need to sign a lease for that one.

When I travel back to the bay area now, I get an airbnb-type room in Palo Alto, and don't typically pay more than $800/mo short-term. A lot of things are listed at higher rates, but you can often negotiate pretty successfully. It certainly doesn't hurt to ask.

The ridiculous rents that you hear about in the bay area are partially due to a genuine real estate crunch, but they are largely also due to people having too much money and not enough sense. Paying $1200/mo for a dorm is nuts, no matter what city it's in.

Absolutely. My friend was living in a studio on Hamilton Street in downtown Palo Alto for $1000/mo earlier this year. Additionally there are places in Sunnyvale that you can rent for a good deal which will let you shell out the $100/mo for access to Hacker Dojo which would only be a 15 minute drive away.

Having lived in SV all my life, these "Hacker Hostels" just seem like a way for the operators to exploit those who flock to their services, who just don't know any better.

In fact, if someone is paying $1,200 a month for a dorm, then that tells you something about the kind of employee or co-founder they would be.

No problem if they stay there for a couple weeks, up to a month, while getting situated or doing a bunch of meetings, but living there for months shows lack of judgement. You can get a hotel in Santa Clara- rack rate- for $50, and a nice one at that.

You could get a room for that amount, but you get it without the community, free breakfast, or instant friend group. Most people who stay at ChezJJ are only here for a short amount of time, like a few days, a few weeks or a few monts. It's incredibly difficult to find a room to rent for less than 6 months, and normally renters want a 12 month lease. It's too much of a hassel.

This is true, However you do miss out the on the people. I would guess something like this provides much more support for the participants than a simple 1 bedroom. I feel that being surrounded by like minded people working towards a familiar goal is far more valuable than an apartment.

I'd love it if a (decent) study were done comparing the success rates of an entrepreneur in a start up hub, compared with those in areas without a start-up scene. I wonder if there really is a measurable difference that backs the hype.

Dude, seriously, where have you been the last decade?

This is like asking the success rate of an actor/actress in LA versus in other cities.

Well, no, because if we're talking about an internet startup, location is significantly less important. The nature of acting requires a physical presence in a particular location (i.e. the stage), but an internet-based startup has no such requirement. I can just as easily create a company in Amsterdam as I could from SF.

One of the major benefits that's routinely touted is access to VC/angel. Something that most people forget is that the odds of getting such investment are relatively small and most start-ups thrive without it.

The fact is if you are building a consumer startup & you want to get big, you're going to need funding unless you want to charge people & curb your growth.

If you want to increase your likelihood to get funding, you have to be here in the Bay Area.

The odds of getting VC are low -- only 1 in 400 pitches result in funding. [1] Of course, this number doesn't include the number of people who were rejected before they even had a chance to pitch a VC.

I'm not sure why charging people is considered to be a shocking idea. A business is supposed to charge people, or find another way to make money, such as smothering eyeballs with advertising. I'd rather have a profitable company that has positive cash flow and a sustainable growth rate than a "big" company with a ton of freeloaders and external investment.

If you're going to cite Twitter and Facebook as an example, the odds of you creating a similar company are akin to finding Willy Wonka's golden ticket.

VC just isn't available or necessary in the vast majority of cases, negating the need to be in the Bay Area. Bear in mind that VCs are all over the place, from Boston to New York to London. The benefit you cited elsewhere that it's fun to be in the Bay Area is, however, the most compelling.

The only true blue benefit I can see to even being in the US is access to better payment solutions, and possibly a culture that better supports brazen entrepreneurialism.

[1] http://www.quora.com/Venture-Capital/What-are-the-odds-of-ge...

"I'm not sure why charging people is considered to be a shocking idea."

A few thoughts. One obviously is taking the social proof of what others are doing and copying it.

The other is that "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all". So having revenue of $0 is better than having revenue of $15000 (2nd number arbitrary just trying to illustrate that by showing a number you are likely to be judged differently then if you never charged at all and can point to eyeballs or signups and have the focus on that).

"If you're going to cite Twitter and Facebook as an example, the odds of you creating a similar company are akin to finding Willy Wonka's golden ticket."

Most people I know doing startups especially in the Bay Area want that golden ticket. Odds are very low but that's what people aspire for.

Taking it to basketball analogy.

There are millions of basketball players out there and all of them aspire to one day play in the NBA. Chances are slim since there are only about 450 players in the NBA in a given season.

"The odds of getting VC are low -- only 1 in 400 pitches result in funding"

But you are pitching more than 1 VC.

Rose said "VCs invest in roughly 1 out of 400 companies who pitch them." and it's obvious he means "an individual VC".

Most importantly (something I try to point out with respect to dating as well or anything where success is essentially "1") you are looking for 1 person/firm to believe in you.

You're right. People should be clearer when touting the benefits of SV. It's really about VC-backed startups that require venture capital (VC's are notoriously adverse to funding faraway startups) and that require access to talent that's willing and able to work 70+ hour weeks face to face with other hackers and entrepreneurs.

There are exceptions, but that's the general model and people have made billions with it so arguing against it is an uphill battle.

This book says that location is very important for 'innovation industries':

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008035HQQ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...

From the summary, it doesn't seem to imply geographic location is necessary for founders of start-ups, but more employees. It may even be becoming less necessary as companies are increasingly able to have a distributed, virtual workforce. Some of the most interesting businesses have employees that have never met -- Automattic is one that readily comes to mind.

It does look like an interesting book though and I'll grab a copy.

What the summary - and the book - is saying is that living in 'innovation hubs' is good not only for programmers, scientists and the like, but also for 'ordinary folks' who provide services to those people working directly in 'innovation'.

I've thought about this argument before, and I realized that it just doesn't make sense. It's probably the most delusional way to describe building a business.

Lest we forget, the old way of charging for something still works. In fact, with the internet, it's extremely easy to reach a huge international audience. Customers don't give one shit where you live.

If you are trying to get a lot of big investors for your social platform that has to explode, sure, SF/SV is probably the absolute best for that, but you can start a business anywhere.

If all utilities are included it is a bit more of a deal if you ask me. That and weekly cleaning and counting the living space as a hacker space (of which membership could cost you a hundred+ a month).

I don't think it's a symptom of hype in the Valley. (The high rents in general, sure. But not the hacker hostels.) As others mentioned, the whole point of being in the Valley in the first place is to be around other people doing similar things, because it's more fun that way.

But if you just step off a plane at SFO and walk around, you're not guaranteed to find people doing startups, especially if you don't know which coffee shops they frequent. Speaking from experience, staying at somewhere like Chez JJ means an instant connection to a community of smart and similarly-inclined people. It really is great for folks new to the Valley ("on the bottom rung"), and I think the article got at least that point correct.

The thing about AirBnB is that these are not supposed to be permanent residences. Yes, $1,200/month can get you a private room in a house with other people but AirBnB is for travelers who are going to a new location they haven't been to before, or are just passing through.

It's very hard to find housing if you're going to be somewhere for just a few months, so AirBnB is there for those short stays and it's better and cheaper than a hotel, and a good way to meet people in the area.

You shouldn't really compare it with finding a place for good because that's not what it's for. I live in the area and have tried to find a short stay for a previous 3 month internship. It's very hard, and I had the luxury of being able to stay with my parents while I looked as I grew up within driving distance. However, I would imagine doing that from a distance would be next to impossible.

I concur. I am currently staying at the Mountain View house while doing a summer internship at a startup. It is difficult to find short-term housing on craigslist or other rental sites as most landlords are looking for long-term leases. Luckily, I was able to stay with friends while looking for housing and was fortunate to find an open spot at Chez JJ. Though $1000/month can seem pricey, for the location (biking distance to my office, grocery stores, YC, and HackerDojo) and community of hackers and entrepreneurs, you would be hard pressed to find a more ideal housing arrangement.

The peer effect of seeing a lot of other people working hard around you. I definitely benefit from proximity to other hard-working people. Particularly when you're embarking down the vague, ill-defined path of launching an idea ... it can help a lot to know that you're not the only one.

"What real significant tangible benefit are these people getting that compels them to live like this and pay a relatively high cost for the privilege?"

There is a significant "plan b" by doing that that you have to consider as well as a benefit over being somewhere else because of the concentration of like minded people. Many who will go on to achieve success.

You are around others who are doing things and you are making connections. If your thing doesn't work, you know people who now know you and you can get involved with them if your idea doesn't work out if they feel you have talent. (And vice versa). That's a huge benefit.

Are we sure it's really $1,200/month? Monthly rates may be a lot lower - if the renter agrees to a longer term lease. Nightly rates are a lot more because the hostel managers have to manage capacity more aggressively.

The article just mentioned it's $40/night - that's not too bad considering no long term lease is involved.

I absolutely believe it's worth it. In fact, I predict the hostels will increase their price as they become more popular (they should send a thank you note to the NYT).

I sorry, I made a mistake. The monthly rate isn't $1,200 but $1,100.

I'm not sure it is worth it and cramming 10 people in a room for $40/night feels exploitative, particularly as there are many options nearby that cost less and come with a private room. [1]

They're making a decent amount of cash from this and they're shrewd business people if they're able to rent out a single, sparse room for somewhere between $11,000 to $12,000 per month, just by positioning it as for hackers! I have a lot of respect for their marketing and business savvy!

[1] http://www.airbnb.com/s/Castro--San-Francisco--CA?room_types...

> $1,200/month or less gets you your own private room in a shared apartment in NYC, Boston, or just about anywhere else.

$1400/month gets a one-bed apartment in Mountain View. I used to pay $700/mo for a private room and bathroom in a 2 bed apartment in Mountain View. Those prices seem over hyped.

Agreed. 1200/month does not sound like "cheap rent" as the article calls it.

When are people going to learn that PayPal is never, ever, ever to be trusted?

> When the site started in May, $12,000 in orders for a car diagnostics device poured in right away. PayPal, which the founders used to process payments, decided their account was “high risk” and suspended it, freezing their money for six months, Mr. Wu said. Mr. Wu and Mr. El-Hage maxed out their credit cards to fulfill the orders. Without investors backing them, they nearly went broke. MassDrop has recovered to “above-ramen status, but not that much higher,” Mr. El-Hage said.

I'd more specifically qualify that as: "Don't ever use PayPal to process a large & sudden volume of orders for a product" -- which, granted, can be hard to anticipate. It seems like this is a guaranteed way to trigger their fraud detection, getting your account frozen. This is anecdotally a bear to fix. I believe the GP2X guys got burned by this at one point. Also, doesn't PayPal frown on taking preorders in their ToS?

When we launched our product we got ~100,000 in the first 24 hours and we didn't have our account locked, so it isn't guaranteed. After 48 hours the did put a 25,000 reserve on the account plus 10% of future transactions for 90 days though, which is annoying.

What are my options if I'm not in US? GoCardless is great but not instantaneous afaik. Paypal is so easy from the user perspective (and has low upfront cost for the developer) that most just accept the risk. But they are evil, very evil.

I've found Paypal to be much better if you:

1) Call them and get to know them

2) Let them know what you're selling up front

3) Verify all your info -- connect a bank account to it, connect a credit card to it

4) before a launch, marketing blitz, or push, call and let them know.

Why? They're not a bank, but they're like a bank. They have to manage risk. Keep them in the loop and your account has a much, much better chance of not being locked down.

It's possible to call Paypal and talk to them?

Yes, it used to be next to impossible but they prominently display their number now, and I have yet to speak to anyone incompetent. It's almost like the missing limb of Paypal all these years. Super knowledgeable people who have been working behind the scenes that I haven't had access to.

I'm not saying Paypal (or any payment service) by any means is perfect or ideal. I just know my interaction with Paypal increased after I could access them by phone.

There is a certain peace in saying "I told you my entire business model before I started and you cleared it as a good fit with Paypal" and documenting it politely.

You'd be shocked how much a heads up of "I'm about to launch or might have a crush of traffic from x" does for their risk management department.

It doesn't mean we should notify them of every business decision through them, but it's kind of like building credit, in the beginning it will take a bit more effort on your part to go out of your way to do the right thing.

Otherwise, we're just a random unverified account with zero history with them. If they get to know you, like anything, things get easier. Scammers wouldn't want Paypal to get to know them, right? :)

Second that. The PayPal incident in there succeeded in taking away my attention from the whole Hacker Hostel model and prompted me to quickly search for alternatives.

Problem is, there are not many if you live outside the US :( Can anyone recommend any international options?

"Trust" isn't the issue. I doubt they could have convinced a bank that they were low-risk enough to open a merchant account.

I like how the term "hacker" is finally starting to be recognized in the mainstream press for a definition other than the criminal one:

"Hackers — the Mark Zuckerberg variety, not the identity thieves — have long crammed into odd or tiny spaces and worked together to solve problems. In the 1960s, researchers at the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory slept in the attic and, while waiting for their turn on the shared mainframe computer, sweated in the basement sauna."

Unfortunately, it's still the wrong definition. Ideally, journalists shouldn't feel obliged to make any distinction.

Heh ... I had to read the "Hacker" sentence thrice before I got it.

$40/night? I don't personally know anyone in Menlo Park, but know people with places to themselves in/very near SF for $1200/month. Even with rent going up lately, $1200/month for not even a private bedroom?

At that rate, you're also paying for the lack of a long-term lease commitment, the location, and the amenities (in this case food, furnishings, and peers). Compared to hotels in these same area -- where you also pay for short-term convenience, furnishings, and immediacy of location/amenities -- it's still fairly cheap.

I'm not sure how $1,200 to sleep with 4 other people in a bedroom is considered fairly cheap when you compare the same rate at a hotel.

$100/night, divided by 4, is $25/night per person in a decent hotel with a negotiated long term rate. Of course, you don't get the intangibles of being in a "hacker house" 24/7 and live out the dream.

Buying something in smaller increments almost always costs (proportionally) more.

$1200/month might be a good price for rent in San Francisco but you can bootstrap your startup at half the cost if you look around on Craigslist. It also helps to live somewhere other than one of the most expensive cities in the United States.

You have to love these bootstrap covers where they display $2,499+ MacBooks in the most impoverished settings.

MacBook Air starts at $999.

Priorities, my friend. Priorities.

The $2,499 MacBooks can potentially earn money, a nice bed does not.

I think you're seriously underestimating the productivity impact of rest. I'll take a good night's sleep over a retina display any time.

Just one night's sleep?

Depends what business you're in.

"Hackers — the Mark Zuckerberg variety, not the identity thieves " being tongue and cheek are we :)?

I think this is a great line actually. The media is largely responsible for corrupting the original meaning of the word. At least they're now showing people it has multiple meanings, and that hacker doesn't always mean "malicious cracker".

I just found it ironical given Facebook's privacy record. Identity thieves and Mark Zuckerberg in the same sentence.

I also got that feeling when I read this line. The word "hacker" has so many permutations that it needs to be qualify, ie malicious hacker, SaaS hacker, life hacker. It still means that the hacker is doing something to disrupt their domain.

Is Mark Zuckerberg stealing our identities and storing it on disks too?

kind of interesting to think about this through the context of all the free online classes being offered. Its seems like what people say is, 'well you miss out on interacting with all the other Harvard students'

not sure how welcoming these houses are to those without the right formal educational credentials

"The captains, all women, screen for personalities and occupations, rejecting applicants who are not techies or simply have a poor attitude. Sasha Willins, a 26-year-old graphic designer who is captain of the San Francisco apartment, has a gentle way of saying no. “It’s not so much rejecting as it is asking so many questions until they withdraw their application,” she said."

but it seems like being in the right 'hacker house', could replicate the advantages of getting to interact with Harvard students for a modest housing upcharge

seems slightly more cost effective than cutting Harvard a 50K check

Pretty much the same concept as what StartupHouse is in SF. (http://startuphouse.com)

Similar, but much smaller and more familial. And way less under construction.

Isn't this just another name for a college dorm, but without the whole college classes and graduation and degree thing?

Not at all. We do get some grad students, but most or school drop-outs starting their own businesses. It is not a dorm, nor is it a hostel. Our guests have become my community; my family. We eat together, discuss politics, challenge each others ideas, and support each others endeavors. All this, with breakfast, fresh produce and California weather. It's personal, not a collegiate scam.

My stay there was a wonderful experience and the place was nice. I get energize by having people around working towards the same goal and that is very valuable to me.

Not to mention that spending a couple months in there might leave you with more opportunities than the day right after your graduation from CS.

"for aspiring tech entrepreneurs on the bottom rung of the Silicon Valley ladder, those who haven’t yet achieved Facebook-level riches"

I know this is written as good spirited humour, or at least I hope so. But measuring success against zuckerberg's assets is an unhealthy preoocupation.

It's very typical of the "Get rich and retire by 30" crowd, for whom running a business is the byproduct of making money

Agreed.

Not bad, but surprised it's not cheaper. Airbnb shows numerous places with bedroom for let in the $40 - $60 / night range.

For "hacker short-term bedroom rentals", I wonder how much of a premium the market puts on transit access (or being in downtown PA/MV).

I've been looking in Menlo Park (North Fair Oaks), and assuming buying a 2/1 with 1/1 detached studio could get $50/night or so for the 1/1, if set up properly. But NFO doesn't have great transit.

To be clear, I think the price ($40 / night) is a decent. Cheap enough for most, particularly given the flexibility. Enough money for the landlord (my guess is they can easily pull in $5 - $8 k / mo) to provide decent services. I would like to see more competition ... e.g. include use of laundry, breakfast, etc.

This is a great idea. I think there's a big opportunity for community based housing in general.

I tried living in such a community, but it was in the co-housing tradition and required collective participation in chores. Ummm, no thanks.

But the idea of a bunch of people with shared interests and at similar life stages living in the same place - it's just awesome. So much can get done when people with similar goals and diverse talents just "rub shoulders" on a daily business.

Kismet is the source of much human greatness and a community based on shared interest of passionate, talented people is like a little kismet factory.

I bet some clever people could create a social app that would facilitate the creation and maintenance of such mini-communities.

Opening soon ... http://20Mission.com

A hacker hostel for Bitcoin startups. 41 rooms. Discount, of course, if paying rent using bitcoins.

"Bitcoin's Hogwart's"

Is this not too insular?

I get & agree with some of the arguments in favour of surrounding yourself with other innovators. In the same way that the Pixar building is designed to foster these interactions.

But if you surround yourself with hackers all the time, there is the risk of losing track of the problems outside your circle. You need to talk to your customers. In the same way that people who work at Pixar go home to their kids and discover what their customers want.

Each Chez JJ captain screens for the best mix at the house, and none of us are developers by trade. We are designers, scientists, teachers, and entrepreneurs. Each of us has many ties within the tech industry and also without, and we sometimes purposefully accept non-technical residents for balance.

We really do care about creating an atmosphere which facilitates growth and innovation best, and we've put a lot of thought into the community we're helping to build.

Photo looks like a Foxconn dorm!

heh, that is from the first day we started, it actually looks more homey now. The photos in the NYT article are more appropriate.

@qiqing: Are you willing to tell us a bit about the screening process? I'm curious about what worked, what didn't, what traits you learned to avoid etc..

It's mostly about cultural fit, which is more of an intuitive process for me. I wasn't selecting based on how well they pitched their companies but in their messages, if they seem like the kind of people I would prefer to live with. That is, if they're nerdy enough to enjoy watching Star Trek or Firefly with us, and conscientious enough (and enough of a team player) to clean up their own dishes. And weren't too "normal." Extra points for being excited about math and science, especially if it's not related to their current enterprise.

People who try to be pushy via Airbnb messages, or are interested in only price (and not the hacker community) are generally not accepted. (Funny how it's MBAs and nontechnical people who see the least value in being part of a hacker community.) Also, people who aren't conscientious while they're with us have a lower probability of being accepted back, but fortunately, those are few and far between.

Our first screening is through AirBnb. AirBnb is linked with Facebook, so it's easy to see if you have friends in common with the person who has messaged you. We also look at all the references the messager has already gotten through other travels. Those with the most get highest priority. We also give preference to references from friends, and from those who have stayed with us previously.

The second screening is e-mail contact. If e-mail contact seems friendly and they have an interesting story to tell, about work, and projects and interests, then they are in. Extra points for bakers and chefs.

Occasionally we'll have an egotistic and self entitled guest, but everyone is mostly awesome. We have never had to evict anyone based on bad behavior.

See also "geekhouse" in Japan... A little less tidy though.

Does anybody know of a good site to find roommates/room for rent with other tech-minded people?

If there isn't one, somebody should make it! Would be cool to live in a house with 3,4,5 others all working on startups - but how to find them if you don't all work in the same place?

You can find us at ChezJJ.com. There are links to our AirBnb profiles there. Also there are community houses throughout the bay area. We have a few current guests who are looking for roommates, so maybe you can send me a private message with your e-mail and I can forward it along?

Cool thanks. You guys might consider putting some type of forum or something on your site, people could post looking for people.

Bunk beds sounds like a little much for me personally but it would be cool to rent my own room in a house filled with the kind of people coming through your place.

great idea. That just might happen.

https://www.airbnb.com/

I meant something more permanent, not a nightly rental.

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