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Comment by cybrox | Hacker News Reader

Everyone travelling to, enjoying holiday in, or visiting events in Saudia Arabia, the UAE and gulf states with a comparable state of development has their blood on their hands. Yet still, people - especially in the tech industry - tend to romaticize and frequent some of these places. Absurd.

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That part of the world is regularly throwing out 7 figure offers to the right folks (turns out there is WAY more levels to the tech world above fintech if you're in the right spaces). Everyone has their price and the middle east knows how to meet anyone's.

How many wars have the US started?

Whataboutism.

Also, I'm not from the US.

There is no such thing as "whataboutism". It's correct to point out typical western hypocrisy and they defend themselves with invented words like "whataboutism".

Life must be simple if every kind of criticism is simply hypocrisy.

Life must be simple if every kind of criticism is "whataboutism".

Witty response. - Too bad it falls flat considering there was no attempt at criticism but just a mention of a different, unrelated topic.

But alas, I know how these conversations play out so rest assured that I shall no longer correct you.

The US staged an intervention in Panama therefore the Saudis are allowed to own slaves and work them to death is not a coherent position to hold.

The better argument is to say that (often undocumented) hospitality workers in the USA are often treated only very slightly better than some of these saudi workers. And if cheeto-in-chief gets elected and does what he says he will do, it will only get worse.

First off, that's just flat out not true. 21,000 deaths and 100,000 missing is completely beyond the pale and has no point of comparison in the US. Secondly, if you genuinely believed that undocumented workers were treated this poorly in the US, you'd be begging for them to be deported back to their home countries. The reason why that policy is bad is because they are in fact better off in the US.

Everyone who has filled up at a Chevron gas station has blood on their hands too. Let’s not throw rocks when we live in glass houses ourselves.

https://youtu.be/9OtIAZMqrZE?si=TDdwHNnPwD7hu3CY

"Yet you participate in society!" defeatism. If we can't criticize the system without being part of it, then no one can criticize it.

Simply living passively requires fossil fuels for most people. Actively patronizing these countries is an intentional act.

You obviously didn’t watch the video.

[Bad thing A] does not make [Bad thing B] less valid. This is an equally important story to be told.

Do you understand the distinction between:

(1) Filing up at the tank so you can get to your shitty job and feed your family -- i.e. an activity that is essentially non-optional; and

(2) Going on a vacation more than halfway around the world -- an activity which is definitely quite optional

Absurd is the amount of hypocrisy that is likely loaded in your statement unless everything you have ever bought or used wasn’t knowingly made in some sweatshop.

This is based on the categorically wrong assumption that one has total control over everything they ever consume. - This is not possible.

Yet still, even ignoring this, I consciously make an effort to not support these countries because of the reasons I listed. The same way, I make a conscious effort to not support companies that use business practices that I don't condone.

Does this work 100% of the time? No. But that doesn't make me a hypocrite either. Everyone should do "whatever they can" to express their moral ideals.

Almost absolutely true.

You won't believe (you probably will, actually) how quickly Western people there adapt to "the way things are" in those countries. They promptly get a maid for themselves, do the passport thing "just in case", abuse them physically and sexually, etc.

Funny thing is how most of these people would identify as liberal back in their home countries. They casually talk about women rights and abortion and whatnot on their living rooms while their maid is sleeping in a dark basement with no ventilation a few meters from them. It's nauseating.

I lived in Saudi for four years and have experienced this first hand. Contrary to what you'd expect, Saudi nationals are generally more measured with regards to these things. Anglos and Europeans, "first-world" people in general ... they just lose it, it's like a fetishistic thing. It probably is an actual fetish for them as many of them do rape their maids and/or ask for sexual favors from them.

inb4: "Oh, those are bold accusations where is your hard evidence, show me statistics and high-definition videos of all those maids that you claim are being raped daily. I just did a Google search and found nothing, you must be lying. Blah, blah, blah."

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