Chinese student faces criminal charges for voting in Michigan. Ballot will count | Hacker News Reader

Chinese student faces criminal charges for voting in Michigan. Ballot will count

detroitnews.com

10 pointskoolba21 comments

> Later, the UM student voter contacted the local clerk's office, asking if he could somehow get his ballot back, according to Benson's office.

> Based upon the scenario that we’re hearing this morning, the student was fully aware of what he was doing, and that it was not legal.

It sounds like he was purposely trying to be disruptive to the election.

> Later, the UM student voter contacted the local clerk's office, asking if he could somehow get his ballot back, according to Benson's office.

> "We’re grateful for the swift action of the clerk in this case, who took the appropriate steps and referred the case to law enforcement," said a joint statement from the offices of Benson and Washtenaw County Prosecutor Eli Savit. "We are also grateful to law enforcement for swiftly and thoroughly investigating this case.

> "Anyone who attempts to vote illegally faces significant consequences, including but not limited to arrest and prosecution."

Sounds like the "significant consequences" for illegal voting only apply if you decide to turn yourself in.

> Sounds like the "significant consequences" for illegal voting only apply if you decide to turn yourself in

Affidavit votes are generally scrutinised ex post facto.

The interesting part of this story (to me at least) was this:

> The student's ballot is expected to count in the upcoming election — although it was illegally cast — because there is no way for election officials to retrieve it once it's been put through a tabulator, according to two sources familiar with Michigan election laws. The setup is meant to prevent ballots from being tracked back to an individual voter.

total = total - 1

In a secret ballot, who's getting the minus one?

The real question is how many other processes failed for them to get to the point that they were allowed to cast the vote. Why are those processes so weak?

Because I support the idea of a completely secret ballot. There is no transaction rollback there is no undo once it is cast. It is there and it is in an anonymized pool. This means that there must be much stronger protections to make sure that only those who are allowed to vote can cast the vote.

> Why are those processes so weak?

At least in New York City a few years ago, affidavit ballots weren’t run until the very end. So you had a pre and post-run total, and if the affidavits swung a race it was a payday for the election lawyers who would scrutinise each one.

OK, that's actually a pretty good reason for it to still count.

Please, please, let the Michigan difference be exactly one vote! Don't care in whose direction.

I'd bet you a donut the GOP will ask for a redo of the entire election in that state if things don't turn out their way.

I think they should do it no matter the outcome. If a state can't prove that only alive eligible citizens have voted - then the state have no right to claim that the results are valid.

If a candidate makes a totally false claim in the media should the election be invalid until every voter can prove that they have got the correct brain wash? Obviously not. There is no way to undo the damage from the false claim. So the results will be valid as long as election laws are followed and any dispute can be adjudicated in the courts.

How about, you know, an ID card like in most developed countries?

The person’s identity is not in question, because he used an ID and provided documentation that proved his place of residence.

I'd assume they meant a citizen ID card. Not an "I paid tuition" ID card, from a university which brags about having students from 60+ countries around the world.

What do you consider to be a citizen ID card? A passport book/card?

Because as you know, non-citizens can get REAL IDs, and Trump signed legislation that allowed for certain non-citizens to have permanent REAL IDs.

> What do you consider...

Anything that is either only given to citizens, or has some obvious "Person [X] is / [ ] is not a US Citizen" indicator on it.

I'd assume that the relative lack of a suitable ID card (in the US) was the point that user RicoElectrico was trying to make.

You mean a citizenship ID card, or ID cards that include citizenship status. Driver's licenses, etc are obviously not currently good enough, though maybe a Real ID is.

> How about, you know, an ID card like in most developed countries?

Yes, our flawless security standard that has been thwarting underage drinkers for decades.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/election-fact-check-noncitizens-vo...

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/12/nx-s1-5147789/voting-election...

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yj98grr5lo

Isn't it good to be reassured this is so uncommon that no more precautions were actually needed to prevent it.

Our election security is in part lazily evaluated. If a race is close, campaigns and independent eyes scrutinise the records. One of the standard checks is validating newly-registered voters. This would have been caught if it mattered; it probably would have been caught even if it didn’t.

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