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Comment by devjab | Hacker News Reader

I didn’t read it as “don’t help anyone”, I read it as “don’t help managers”. As someone who’s worked both sides I agree, not least because I very efficiency tool I’ve ever been exposed to was bullshit. To me most of these things, including peer reviews and retrospectives and whatever else the pseudo jobbers and consultants have peddled for two decades now don’t work. Then again most organisations could probably get by with half their current middle management staff if we removed all these metrics and audits and actually let them manage. We won’t do that of course.

Somewhat hilariously I was a manager during Covid, and as such I saw the metrics which showed that every worker group in the city I was working for was happier and more productive. Except for middle managers and the various positions they are in meetings all day. Interestingly productivity was way up despite people spending significantly less time at their computers.

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> “don’t help managers”

Managers are people too, despite of what Dilbert will have you believe. They need help, support, and tools.

It's true that many tools and frameworks are sold as magic pills that solve all the problems. Metrics are one of those tools that are often misrepresented. I think that many of the tools are helpful, if used skillfully.

You can't manage what you can't see. You see your team through your direct interactions with them. You see what they do through the artifacts that they produce. You learn about them from others - hear-say, praise, complaints, and gossip. You also get another perspective through various metrics. You need to combine multiple ways of seeing a team to have a more-complete picture. Take any of them away, and you're a little more blind.

I remember when I first transitioned into the manager role. There was so much that I needed to learn. Some of the tools gave me insight into what is happening on the team that I really don't get to observe directly. However, none of the tools did my job for me. I learned by reading, using new tools, and experimenting. Over time I honed my ability to be able to understand what my team is doing well, and where it needs help. If someone took away ALL the metrics-based tools, I would have fewer ways of evaluating my team.

Managers need as much help as anyone else to do their job. This also involved introducing new tools, and teaching managers how to use them. In a large part, that is their manager's job. Sometimes they call me to help.

I guess it ought also be pointed out that these days *a lot* of jobs in general are harmful because increasing economic growth, accelerating in the process the destruction of the biosphere and depletion of natural resources (both of which became a concern half a century ago at least).

Yet of course it's extremely hard to make people understand that, when these are things that they, their families, and even their communities or their polities have been doing for generations, and are directly relevant to their short term livelihood (which they see as medium or even long-term livelihood, as "short term" here means decades).

> Somewhat hilariously I was a manager during Covid, and as such I saw the metrics which showed that every worker group in the city I was working for was happier and more productive.

I'm curious how productivity was measured for that. I assume happiness was self-assessed, but I'm also surprised that'd be up given how much of a rollercoaster a time that was just in general.

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