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Comment by nilkn | Hacker News Reader

At the risk of sounding snarkier than I actually intend, this is great example of why so much Tesla criticism online should be ignored or at least taken with a huge grain of salt.

I could criticize your coworker for driving a vehicle off into nature and dangerous weather conditions without taking a few moments to learn how to operate its most basic functions. But I don’t need to, because all I really need to point out is that they could’ve just clicked the button on the turn stalk to turn on the wipers. No touchscreen needed.

In all seriousness, though, they need to be a more careful driver. Driving a vehicle without knowing how to drive it is the fault of the driver and puts other people in danger.

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Turn stalk controls have been standardized over the past 60+ years. Why change something which works for everyone already?

Maybe telsa should switch the brake pedal and the accelerator next.

Maybe cocacola should switch which way you twist the bottle cap to get it off? Surely it is the user’s fault if they cannot open the bottle.

1. Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. That’s careless, irresponsible, and endangers others. If they had hurt or killed someone, they would’ve been prosecuted and would possibly be in jail right now.

2. Taking a few moments to learn to click a button in a car you bought is far from unreasonable, especially when everyone knows going in that a Tesla is not a completely standardized vehicle. The risk posed by this change is orders of magnitude less than the risk imposed by swapping the brake and accelerator pedals, so that is far from a fair or reasonable comparison.

3. You may not appreciate the benefits of the changes that Tesla made, as these things are ultimately subjective, but those changes contributed to the Model Y becoming the best selling vehicle on the planet.

Now, if your coworker had rented a car and unexpectedly received a Tesla, I could sympathize more. A car rental company should not rent out non-standard vehicles unexpectedly. However, it’s always the responsibility of the driver to learn to operate the vehicle first before getting on the road and endangering others.

> 1. Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. That’s careless, irresponsible, and endangers others. If they had hurt or killed someone, they would’ve been prosecuted and would possibly be in jail right now.

Yet I can switch between very different cars and "it just works" and I dont' have to go through the darn manual each time... weird inni't?

> 3. You may not appreciate the benefits of the changes that Tesla made, as these things are ultimately subjective, but those changes contributed to the Model Y becoming the best selling vehicle on the planet.

_Something something correlation something something causation_

Have you considered that Tesla mayb got to that point because it was 1) very efficient and 2) Musk has a cult-like following (something akin Apple users making pointless decissions) even DESPITE dumb solution like tablet stuck in the middle of the dashboard or stupid changes like this one?

You shouldn't have to read the documentation for basic usage of a vehicle. Basic things like turning signals, lights, windshield wipers, locking and unlocking, windows work basically the same in most vehicles.

You are with a friend, and they are not feeling well, with most cars you can just take the wheel and drive as long as needed without having to look at the manual to figure out how to operate basic safety features.

I don't hate Elon, neither I hate Tesla, but I don't fucking want an "opinionated" car. Those changes bring no benefit other than saving a few minutes of assembly time and a few parts on the Bill of Materials, and all those benefits are for Tesla, not for me as a customer or a driver.

Plenty of customers and drivers disagree with you.

btw, the whole manual, with search option, is in the tablet.

Rather than suggest customers and drivers, and their friends think reading a manual for basic operation should be done as you suggest, I propose it's more likely that one of the following is true:

* The owners silently put up with inconveniences. I don't know why the majority of people browse the web without adblockers but if they can put up with that, they can put up with bad car UX

* Sunk cost fallacy

* Fanboys, which very much will put in more effort to make something work than your average person would

> Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. That’s careless, irresponsible, and endangers others. If they had hurt or killed someone, they would’ve been prosecuted and would possibly be in jail right now.

I think I've got a driver's license that allows me to drive from Toyotas to VW, from Dodges to BYD without having to read the manual for basic usage.

And yes, I usually do read the manual even on rented cars, but not because I need to figure out how to operate the turn signals or windshield wipers.

If Tesla wants do things their way, we should do like an aviation and require type certification as we do for pilots to be able to operate more complex planes. Let'see how Tesla's marketing would like this.

Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault.

BS. The only reason this example is dangerous is because the manufacturer changed things for no reason -- things that were working just fine.

See also the death of Anton Yelchin, which occurred because some "UX designer" was bored with the way gearshifts had worked since his or her grandmother learned to drive: https://www.cochranfirm.com/washington-dc/star-trek-actor-ki...

IMO Tesla succeeded despite their obvious driver UX flaws, not because of them. Many consumers were/are willing to look past it.

I don't know if you are aware - tesla has removed all stalks on current vehicles.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/09/08/tesla...

There is still a dedicated wiper button on the steering wheel.

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