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Comment by tigeroil | Hacker News Reader

Logic is a weird one. It has really truly excellent included instruments (such as Alchemy) and effects, but the app itself feels rather outdated. The mixer, whilst having had some nice features added since Logic 9, is in dire need of an update.

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Wouldn't that be a sign of a product that was purchased by Apple and then left to languish as is with just enough effort to not let it rot?

Apple bought Logic over 20 years ago. I’d be surprised if it shared any code with the pre-acquisition version.

Why not? Current macOS ships code older than that.

I believe the Logic team are still based in Germany, where the original Emagic team that produced Logic were based, so it's not that they are languishing, but an intentional decision has been made (either by them or Apple) to keep this structure.

Logic has such a long history, it's not surprising that it shows it's age, and has 'weird' behaviour that you wouldn't choose today. It's got stuff in there from the early 90s, as it started out as a midi sequencer before pulling audio into the product.

All the AI hubris but Logic still does not do fades or zero crossings when cutting audio clips. And don't get me started on the audio zoom. This is basic stuff!

It feels like the audio code was not touched since emagic days.

Logic Pro has both of those features: https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/edit-fades-lgcpf7c0... https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/snap-edits-to-zero-...

I am talking about automatically adding fades and/or automatically snapping to nearest zero crossing when cutting audio to prevent clicks.

Every other modern DAW does this automatically. In Logic, you are expected to do this manually every time you do an audio edit. Like it's 2004 again.

Edit: added clarification about zero crossings and editing workflow

This seems like a very weird hill to die on, specifically concidering this is a feature I would want explicitly off and wouldn't care about existing.

It's editing 101, check your cuts are at a safe boundry of put in a fade. I've never seen an auto feature do what I want though and need to redo it anyway, so just doing nothing is half as much work.

I would much rather complain about lack of AAF support in logic but then again I would never recommend logic to anyone other than for music production work purely because that's the only use case the devs seem to care about.

You might be diligent to check your cuts in Sample Editor.

However when you zoom in in the Arrange the way the waveform is rendered it seems like you are cutting on a zero crossing when in fact you are not.

It lies to you and leads you to believe you've done the right thing.

I have had the pleasure of working on tracks with dozens of clicks that I had to remove thanks to the laziness of Logic developers, pardon me for dying on the hill and spoiling your view.

I don't use logic. I find it to be no good but regardless I still wouldn't die on that hill.

There's many things I disliked about logic when I tried it and that led to my opinion on its only useful for music production, I would probably not even say editing...

More on the composition level. If I'm tracking it's into Pro Tools, any edits happen there too. I personally don't move out but other's do really prefer to do more production work in Logic so I would happily bounce out tracks for them. Ironically AAF would solve that problem too...

Regarding cuts on zero... I basically never do so all my cuts will have a crossfade, generally the real world is just a little too chaotic to have a zero crossing just about where I would prefer the cut...

Unfortunately I am in position where I have to master mixes done in Logic and this backwards crap can easily add up to half an hour onto every track. Sick of it. Dying on that hill!

I mean put it in your requirements and reject the mix if it contains pops and clicks... Whoever did the mixing has the original with cuts so can add fades much much quicker than you can.

And if they don't well, more work for them.

Or just add it to the bill, if you are clear upfront that it will add $$$ there's no issues there.

I've had sessions rejected by mastering engineers for stuff that I've had to correct, why make this your problem.

Noted, thank you.

it doesn't? I never heard pops when trimming clips

As a mastering engineer, I am removing them from Logic mixes almost every day. Sometimes I need to pinch myself to reascertain that it's really 2024.

In defence of the AI hubris, I laid down a funky rhythm guitar track, verse and chorus, and then fiddled around with the AI bassist and AI drummer and blow-me-down-with-a-feather if the results weren't outstanding. Like a perfect demo. I was able to send that to my mate and say, here you go, here's a demo with guide tracks for the bass.

For making demos and filling-out sketches, I'm thrilled. Here's the audio, and all rough playing, bum notes and general incompetence are my own.

Drums and Bass by Logic AI: https://www.mixcloud.com/hnvr46/demo-rvg/

That's astonishing. The best I've ever heard? No. Completely freaking serviceable, especially for a demo? Oh yeah.

I know, it's nuts!

Huh. Doesn't return to the one, ever? You've got sort of a I - III - IV thing going on, and it just goes to IV and stays there forever. Did you think that was the root?

Fun toy, though! I take it you extended it backwards into an intro, or you have playing it can read that you muted, leading into your guitar stuff. Did you play to a click or is it reading your tempo too?

I think I played straight into Logic with the metronome on, two sections and then pushed that forward to create some blank bars for the intro and then added the drummer on multiple tracks and same for bassist, then fiddled with some of the settings for each section.

I was pretty impressed, though, for approximately ten minutes start to finish. I should probably go recall what I played so I can try and finish the riffs off or something.

An actual competent musician ought to be able to make the most ridiculous demos with this thing.

Pedantic note: Alchemy itself was brought in by Apple's acquisition of Camel Audio. So not Apple acquisitions go wrong.

Pros hate UI redesigns

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