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Comment by vasco | Hacker News Reader

Jaywalking is any crossing in a wrong / illegal way, not about intersections specifically. Mostly it's about not using crosswalks, so I don't see how it collides with what Europe does.

In Europe you also have differences with some countries where crosswalk lights are as a mandate from God and nobody will cross even at 2am deserted road. And then you have countries where the crosswalk lights are mere decorations.

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I had an identity crisis in Germany when, at 2am on a deserted road, a group of hooligan-looking teenage boys told me off for crossing on red.

Something like that happened to me on my first day as an adult in Germany. Wide road, Sunday afternoon, visibility over 1km in both directions, not a car in sight. I was accompanied by a girl from the place where I was to work. I had just met her and she was showing me to the nearby convenience store.

She suddenly started screaming when I crossed the street while the pedestrian light was red. I didn't get what the problem was so I crossed back, to much drama.

She (or her boyfriend) later told me there was a long-running campaign during the 90s aiming to curb pedestrian death, that featured vivid TV spots showing kids die because they routinely saw adults jaywalking and imitated them.

So jaywalking = killing children.

Also German children of all ages are encouraged to say to jaywalkers "You're not a good example for the children.". It happened to me more than once.

When there might plausibly be little kids watching, I make sure I'm very obvious about checking for oncoming traffic. Repeatedly. Before & during crossing the road.

Where onlooking kiddies seem implausible, I pretty much do the same thing. Far better to be an obvious chicken than dead right.

I was observing a parade once and stepped into the stopped traffic to talk to a driver about his vehicle.

I felt terrible later when I realized I had set a dangerous example for all of the kids around.

This is also very much the agitprop in Russia, although in practice people mostly just ignore it. Sometimes in very frustrating ways, too, like crossing the road on red in front of an ambulance with the emergency light on.

The distinction is about pedestrians being forced to use crossings. In the UK you can use them, but you can cross where you like if you want to.

Not entirely true. Generally true in England & Wales and Scotland aside from motorways, but in Northern Ireland the cops can fine you for it, although it rarely seems to be enforced.

https://www.psni.police.uk/sites/default/files/2023-01/00008...

Also in the UK we have pedestrian refuge islands. Not a crossing, as there is no pedestrian priority, but useful little bits of road furniture that reduces the likelihood of getting mown down by cars. As a side effect they also tend to slow down car traffic due to narrowing of the road. Americans may see them as official jaywalking points.

https://www.trafficchoices.co.uk/traffic-schemes/refuge-isla...

> In Europe you also have differences with some countries where crosswalk lights are as a mandate from God and nobody will cross even at 2am deserted road

I think that's mostly just certain parts of Germany.

It was a fun evening with the guys from Bavaria in Berlin

Jaywalking is a pedestrian crossing outside of explicitly designated crossings points. In the US that means by *default( any pedestrian crossing any street at any location other than a pedestrian crossing or an intersection, regardless of distance to such a point.

There is a massive difference between "country culturally tends towards using designated crossing points" and "it's a criminal offense to not use them". I'm curious about which countries outside of the US, especially in Europe, that criminalize jaywalking.

If France, the law states that a pedestrians should use designated crossing points if one is available within 50 meters. Crossing at a red light is also illegal.

It is punishable with a 4€ fixed fine. I don't know of any lesser punishable crime and it is rarely enforced in practice despite jaywalking being common. But it is still a crime.

It's a spectrum. E.g. in Russia it's illegal to cross the road if there's a crosswalk or intersection visible from the point where you cross it (and cops will fine you for it - or rather, attempt to extort a bribe).

Which countries obey crossing lights as strictly as you describe? I've been to lots of European countries and none were like that. Not in the way that the US is.

Parts of Germany, lots of Poland, Austria, etc. South Europe where I'm from is "decoration land", but the more east you go the harsher they are/were with enforcement so the more people abide.

In countries where open police corruption is more routine, cops love enforcing such laws because it's a very low-effort to extort bribes. Not even because the fine is significant, but because the procedure to pay it once given a ticket may be rather onerous compared to just handing over a banknote and going on your way.

Germany and Poland both do this.

In Poland I always respect the pedestrian lights. Contrary to France and even Germany, drivers expect you to respect them, and especially in Warsaw there is a very high tolerance on speeding on big wide arters. Cars crossing intersections at speeds of more than 90km/h (7.8 furlongs per minute for Americans) are usual in Warsaw.

>90km/h (7.8 furlongs per minute for Americans)

As an American, I had to do the math on that -- which is really annoying.

If you want to provide us with something we can understand, it's furlongs per fortnight, not per minute. ;)

56mph

I would say they are generally obeyed in Germany, of course there are always people that walk over a red light but generally, most people obey it.

I'm currently in Tokyo and it is the norm to wait for the green man, even if it is a two-lane road there isn't a car in sight. I can understand waiting at one of the mega intersections, where you can barely make out the pedestrians on the other side - definitely waiting for permission to cross there.

Also currently in Tokyo. While the norm, it's starting to change! I've definitely seen a lot of younger people willing to cross against a red when it's obviously safe.

Finland, for one

Poland is pretty strict. They will fine you if you cross the street where there isnt a crosswalk. And generally people wait for green light in Poland even if there are zero cars on the road.

> Poland is pretty strict. They will fine you if you cross the street

It's varies in different parts of Poland.

Lublin - double fine for crossing a street with an "island" between the lanes on red light

Warsaw - single fine, but ~99% chance of getting fined even if you don't see any cops around

Gdańsk - you can jaywalk in front of a precinct and unless you force drivers to honk, or act stupid in other way - no cop gives a flying fuck. Cities with tourism have cops acting on different rules.

More precisely, it is illegal to cross when there is crosswalk within 100 meters.

In addition to the ones people already mentioned: In Copenhagen it was very rare for people to cross on red. I never got and dirty looks when I did it, but it was definitely not the norm.

Illegal in Russia. There is even a common trick during driving exam: examiner ask you to let a person cross in a middle of a road. You do that, and you've failed the exam.

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