BYD to launch its smallest EV in Australia, hinting at low-cost Seagull arrival | Hacker News Reader

BYD to launch its smallest EV in Australia, hinting at low-cost Seagull arrival

electrek.co

41 pointspeutetre42 comments

Good to see someone with an actual plan to roll out affordable EVs. Too bad it's BYD, the knock-on effects on Tesla and VW Group will not be pretty. I mean, unless the US and EU tariff the hell out of imports. Australia doesn't care, since they don't car makers anymore after Holden's demise (right?).

Holden was GM for quite some time anyway, Australia ceased having an independent car manufacturer a very long time ago.

But Australia allow large international companies to steal all their gas at essentially 0% resource tax so it's not like they'll ever do anything to ensure their independence.

> unless the US and EU tariff the hell out of imports

This is the plan, the EU just enacted penal tariffs on Chinese EVs today

> I mean, unless the US and EU tariff the hell out of imports.

That is what is happening. But I wonder if that'll result in animosity for the upper ruling class. Tariffs when it suits them, but never when it suits us down below.

Many would love the BYD because all other EV's are completely out of their spending budget.

Animosity for the upper ruling class is so 2011. It's the enablers they're gonna come for this time.

(maybe, I can't predict the future)

The EU doesn't care if BYD opens factories in Europe.

Neither does America. Many of US engines are manufactured overseas already. Honda and Toyota are famous for importing their own engines for some models that they deem important enough.

The latest batch of chinese EV looks really excellent, with exciting and practical vehicles at incredible prices. I’m afraid the whole European car industry is going to get nokiaed. Maybe not on our home market due to protectionism but abroad I don’t see why someone would buy a renault when you can buy this

Renault makes the vast majority of its money in Europe anyways: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1129046/revenue-by-regio...

Cheap EVs are good, I personally don't care if they're american, european or asian. Europe could do it instead of focusing on 40k+ euros gadget bloated piece of shit that nobody can afford

The Peugeot e-208 starts at £22k and you can pick up one thats less than 2 years old for about £10k. The idea that there aren't any affordable EVs hasn't been true for years.

I'm seeing the e-208 start at £29950. The only one that even comes close to 22k is the petrol one at 23.7k.

When I search for it I find a starting price at 36,325 € - is it really that much cheaper in the UK?

UK wages are also lower than half~ of western europe, especially when you venture outside of London.

Why would the EU introduce import tariffs then?

From what I can see the lowest cost 208 is petrol - which is ~£23K and the electric models start at ~£30K.

https://offers.peugeot.co.uk/choose-your-peugeot/configure-2...

My dad's regular 208 (new, a few years ago) was <10k euros after they took his old beater

22k is a lot of money

EU car industry is toast as it's already being protected by tariffs starting today. This will hit other, relatively healthier, industries as China retalliates with its own tariffs.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-sla...

If China enacts tariffs on European dairy and pork, that would actually be good for the environment.

Those are also heavily subsidized in the EU to the point that they are usually cheaper than plant based alternatives

We’ll get farmer riots and extreme right governments who on top of being racist have extremely self destructive economic programs

Volkswagen got what they asked for and it will be their undoing. More lung disease and kindercrusher SUV's for all!

It’s not just VW, there aren’t many companies and countries that are able to compete with China when it comes to manufacturing commodity products

True, but vw’s kicking and screaming against electrification has only doomed them. I’m sure typewriter companies would welcome tariffs on computers too.

Ironically it was the Chinese market that saved the Germans in the 1990s.

The EU did it to theirselves. The manufacturers keep pushing 50k+ euro SUVs while ignoring customers that can only afford something like a seagull. The EU destroyed the domestic market by mandating more and more "safety" features so that you can't make a affordable car anymore.

The Seagull is very cool, and I'm sure they'll sell plenty in Asia (and Europe if they get the chance).

But very few people buy cars of this size in Australia. Kia is about the only manufacturer left offering them, and it's very much a niche car despite being the cheapest on the market.

The new car market is dominated by pickups, just like the USA (though they're not quite as big as F150s).

> But very few people buy cars of this size in Australia. Kia is about the only manufacturer left offering them, and it's very much a niche car despite being the cheapest on the market.

This doesn't appear to be true in my experience. Accent, Corolla hatchback, Polo, Golf, Yaris - these are all cars you'll see every day in any Australian city. And whilst tradies buy utes (we don't call them "pickups"), I doubt at least in the consumer vehicle market they dominate.

What is your source of information?

Also worth bearing in mind that EVs of an external size similar to an ICE car are often a class above in terms of internal space due to the packaging of the motors getting pushed out to the extremes of the vehicle.

Aren’t utes and pickups different (albeit similar) types of vehicle?

Edit: Since someone downvoted me, I went to find the first source I could. I’d be more than happy to be challenged constructively if this isn’t true:

> Utes are classified as a tub-back commercial vehicle based off a passenger car variant.

> For the Americans reading this, yes the Ford Ranchero and Chevy El Camino are therefore utes and not pick-up trucks.

> With no passenger car variant diesel 4x4s like the Ford Ranger, VW Amarok and Toyota Hilux are classified as pick-ups. These vehicles use separate chassis/body construction, commonly use leaf-sprung solid-axle rear-ends and have higher towing capacities than most passenger car-based utes.

https://mightycarmods.com/blogs/news/utes-trucks-and-pick-up...

There's a pretty continuous spectrum. Trying to draw a hard line is stupid. The same is true for AWD/4wd and wagon/SUV/crossover.

I didn't downvote you

Without getting too far into the weeds the current top-selling vehicles (Ranger, Hilux, Amarok etc) in Australia, though usually referred to as "utes" here in Australia, are very similar in design (though smaller) to F150s, Silverados, RAM Trucks etc.

Live rear axles, body on frame construction, four wheel drive, and actually more capable off road in a lot of situations than full size American pickups because they're smaller.

Sorry, I was trying to make it easier for Americans to understand (there are a lot more Americans than Aussies here, obviously).

As for the sales charts, the top four selling vehicles on the list are utes/pickups:

https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-...

The other thing to understand is that the Golf (which is a surprisingly large car these days), Corolla, Accent, Polo, and even the Yaris are a class or two bigger than the Seagull. They're roughly comparable to the BYD Dolphin in size.

Fair enough. I can't find the data, but I'd be curious to see a list that splits off vehicles for work purposes compared to personal. There are various tax benefits to "100% work vehicles" that people claim.

> They're roughly comparable to the BYD Dolphin in size.

I haven't see this car in person, but it sounds like you're describing a kaicar compared to a subcompact?

The Seagull is 3780 long by 1540 high.

The Yaris (XP210) is 3940 long by 1500 high.

The Golf (MK8) is 4284 long by 1456 high.

The Accent (HC) is 4190 long by 1450 high.

The Corolla (E10) is 4370 long by 1435 high.

The Polo (MK6) is 4053 long by 1438 high.

I did pick length and height as what I suspected to be reasonable for estimating "size" based on volume here. They're all within 50cm in length, and the Seagull is the tallest of them. So what defines the sizing class here?

Put it this way - a Toyota Camry, which these days is a big sedan with heaps of legroom in the back - is 4885mm in length.

So the length difference between the Corolla and Camry is less than the difference between the Seagull and Camry.

Kei cars are smaller again, with a maximum length of 3.4 metres.

https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-...

Top 10 selling car models in 2023

Ford Ranger – 63,356

Toyota Hilux – 61,111

Isuzu Ute D-Max – 31,202

Toyota RAV4 – 29,627

MG ZS – 29,258

Tesla Model Y – 28,769

Toyota Landcruiser – 26,449

Mitsubishi Outlander – 24,263

Mazda CX-5 – 23,083

Hyundai Tucson – 21,224

---

Top three are Ute's, 4th/5th place SUV's and the others are all large cars.

You do see smaller cars like Corolla's (I own one) or Hyundai i30's as you say but the numbers above say they are not as popular as larger cars, and I agree from observations when you compare to somewhere like Europe.

There are a lot of weird and wonderful tax breaks in Australia likely helping to drive up the sales of utes*. I don't think it's necessarily that Aussies love driving them as much as Aussies dislike handing over more than they need to to the tax man..

[1]: https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/ute-tax-breaks-exemptions...

i've seen a sharp increase in panzer tanks (f150s especially!) spreading like a plague throughout australian streets. can yanks keep their child slaughtering, pedestrian maiming, two tonne kill-boxes to themselves? every cunt with a disposable income has entered a nuclear arms race to prove they have the smallest cock while picking up groceries.

I used to be sceptical about BYD until I had a ride in BYD SUV a month ago. Very, very comfortable car.

Are those prices in AUD?

No. Incredibly confusing assumption of US hegemony.

Looks like it should be about AUD$15,000.

It looks like they used a value in AUD once in the article, with BRL, pesos and yuan being mentioned more times...

As an Australian, this article is less than useless to me. If they are reporting on the Australian market and giving prices in dollars, then they should be saying what currency they are referring to.

Yep. There was a time when USD and AUD were pretty similar so it didn't matter so much, but we're currently at $1.52 AUD to the $1 USD.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com