Hacker News Reader

Comment by bonestamp2 | Hacker News Reader

Agreed, and with these new machines, they should have two of them (for several reasons). I worked there for a couple years in high school and summertime was just order after order of ice cream. The lost profit from the only machine being broken, or during it's downtime to chill the soft serve liquid after a refill, would pay back the investment in one summer, not to mention the customer service improvement.

The ad campaign for resolving this problem writes itself too. It's easily worth it. Worst case scenario, put the second machine where the pizza oven used to be.

View on HN

Is there anything stopping a franchise from putting 2? I think it can’t be required because they have to meet some sort of smallest viable footprint.

Cost, most likely.

An ice cream machine costs less than $3,000. The whole McDonald's costs $1.5m - $2.5m. They could buy a second ice cream machine with 2-3 day's profit.

Space is a premium because much of their real estate is high traffic and cost, so every square foot is used

Most of the sales at a McDonalds are via the drive-thru. Inside sales have dropped so low that many stores don't even staff the front counter, you have to enter your own order at a kiosk in the lobby or use their mobile app.

I think your conjecture was correct 20 years ago but not at store with the latest remodels. Counter sales and inside dining are an afterthought.

The ice cream machines (all restaurant equipment, really) is very expensive and you generally don't buy more than you will actually use.

Space costs money per square foot, doesn’t matter if it’s in the kitchen or dining area.

Lots of locations are in the smallest sized location possible that can fit everything they need to serve the menu.

I think that the opportunity costs are just too high.

Since the reliability of these machines seem very low, even having 2 machines doesn't guarantee that you're always able to serve ice cream.

And if you're able to serve all your customers with one machine, in times when both are functioning, the second machine doesn't really enable more sales. But you do have to power it, have a dedicated space for it, have someone clean it daily, and pay for the maintenance contract.

It's probably more beneficial to dedicate the space for an extra ice-cream machine to storage, frying station or something else that is more useful.

Another point is that I don't think not being able to sell ice cream reduces sales that much. Because by the time you find out the machine is broken, you're already in the store or drive through anyway

They're not that unreliable, but it seems like they're more unreliable than they actually are because they sometimes lie to customers -- it's easier to say it's broken than explain what is actually happening.

You see, demand for ice cream is very weather driven and that means nearly everyone wants ice cream at the same time. But each machine has a throughput limit. So, a lot of the time when they say the machine is broken, it's really just that the demand has exceeded the machine's capacity, and it takes awhile for the machine to freeze the ice cream mixture when it is refilled. If you had a second machine, that's when you switch to the second machine and by the time that one's capacity is reached, then the other machine will be ready to go again.

The machines also do what modern refrigerators do and they run a defrost/heating cycle to prevent ice from building up on the cooling equipment inside. If a defrost cycle happens at the same time as a freeze cycle, it extends the downtime because it then takes longer to freeze the ice cream mixture.

> to storage, frying station or something else that is more useful.

Storage and frying capacity is not at problem at most McDonald's. Two things they do really well is frying and just-in-time delivery.

> by the time you find out the machine is broken, you're already in the store or drive through anyway

A lot of people come with a car full of kids just for ice cream, they go to your competitor when you don't have it. If they didn't want the expense of an extra ice cream machine, they could keep ice cream sandwiches in the freezer and offer those as a substitute when the ice cream machine is locked out in a freeze or defrost cycle.

Do they even make a profit on ice creams? I doubt it.

Of course they do. The cost of the ingredients is on the order of cents, the marginal cost of labor negligible, and the cost of the machines can be amortized over many thousands of servings.

But even if they didn't, it's a cheap way to get people to show up and potentially order other, higher margin items. If your machine is broken, you lose that funnel and your customers go elsewhere.

You don’t lose many customers - because they’re not required to light a huge “ice cream machine broke” before you get in the drive thru. And once you’re in line and ordering you’re unlikely to cancel just because the machine broke.

I’ve even had the app be wrong and let you order an ice cream when it doesn’t exist - then they lose money giving you a more expensive substitute.

But next time you might go somewhere else.

Some people go there every day and they tell their friends - that sums up.

True - it every time I’ve considered ice cream as an important part of the meal I’ve already disqualified McDonald’s (Dairy Queen or Culver’s is a step above).

This summarizes my relationship with Chipotle.

We have 1 location in my area. I go maybe once a month hoping for a decent experience, but every single time they are out of key ingredients (no chicken, no beans, no chips, etc).

I really don’t understand how that can even happen at Chipotle where the entire menu consists of a grand total of (maybe) 10-15 core ingredients?

I would go way more often if they simply weren’t out or ingredients 90% of the time I go.

But he’s right about not canceling the order. I think last chipotle visit I subbed black beans for pinto, and tofu instead of chicken. The “sorry no chips today” was icing on the cake at checkout.

That’s interesting. I’ve gone to chipotle around once or twice a month for two decades now, and with the exception of their lemonades I’ve only had something unavailable maybe 3-4 times. Regional variation I guess.

Check out r/chipotle - maybe it’s an echo chamber there but it’s a major problem with mobile orders where you don't have an opportunity to sub an ingredient that’s out of stock. Depending on the store, chipotle mobile orders are a “fun” gamble - chipotle needs to fix quality standards across stores at least in my region!

Chipotle is one of the very few businesses I have ever left a google review for because the complaint seems extremely simple to fix. Just stock your store and hire enough people to prep the food!

> But next time you might go somewhere else.

But variable reinforcement works better than fixed one, so ice cream machines working being a gamble might actually increase customer addiction.

The small cones, you're probably right (once you factor in all of the fixed costs). But, the $5 McFlurry... definitely!

Reply on news.ycombinator.com