Comment by rakejake | Hacker News Reader

Comment by rakejake | Hacker News Reader

I believe at one point, you could make it to Senior at Google and then never move up i.e it was considered ok to stay there. Staff/Senior Staff were somewhat rare, Principal was insane and anything beyond that meant you were special to the company. I've never worked at G so if someone is better aware of the history they can correct me .

Here in India, titles are so inflated it's not even funny. Anyone with 5+ years of experience is considered "Senior". After Senior, you go to "Tech Lead" meaning you're aiming for Manager, or directly to "Principal Engineer". To further differentiate, I believe some places have Principal Engineer 2 and beyond. Because India does leetcode on steroids, achieving these levels is mostly about grinding leetcode and having the adequate years of experience for the position.

I guess this is what happens in most industries. A hierarchy is set by management and people jump through hoops and make sure they're "on track" in their career.

The concept you are describing at Google is the "terminal level" for Software Engineers.

At Google, the vast majority of new college hires would begin as Software Engineers at Tech Level 3 (L3), where Tech Level 5 is "Senior Software Engineer." Level 6 is "Staff."

The terminal Level concept was one where all Software Engineers are expected to perform in an upward trajectory toward the standards of the next Tech Level, until reaching Tech Level 5. I.e. Software Engineers are expected to be promotable up to Level 5, and after reaching L5, there is no longer an "up or out" expectation. L5 SWEs are not expected to become Staff Engineers.

Today, the Terminal Level for Google SWEs is now Level 4.

The median Google SWE historically was around L4, and your average Google SWE would be a seasoned L4, potentially ready for a promotion to L5 in the next few promotion cycles.

The idea of a "principal" Software engineer is Level equivalent to a Director (Level 8) of which despite there being many at Google/Alphabet, as a percentage of the total population it is quite small.

This is similar to what we had, a few years before Google, at a serious software engineering company.

Technician I, Technician II, Engineer I, Engineer II, Sr. Engineer.

If you made it to Sr. Engineer, that was as high as most anyone could go. People at that point were focused on the work, not on ladder-climbing, AFAIK.

Though there were maybe a couple people who I knew were Principal Engineers. One was brought into the advanced R&D group at that level, as a rare domain expert and methodology expert, and would be key to whether the complex next-gen flagship product did what customers needed. (Incidentally, that person was also literally a Navy SEAL, which is another label obtained only rarely.)

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