US vaccinations fall again as more parents refuse lifesaving shots for kids | Hacker News Reader

US vaccinations fall again as more parents refuse lifesaving shots for kids

arstechnica.com

15 pointsrbanffy21 comments

It is quite strange with these US movements where you are a 'vaxxer' or 'pro choice' or whatever in the same way you are 'rocker' or 'punker'. Like some identity.

"In Idaho, for example, vaccination rates for the four key vaccines hover around just 80 percent and the exemption rate in the state is a staggering 14.3 percent."

The punker movement seems strong there.

It seems like the search for "community" has lead a lot of Americans (maybe other nations' peoples too?) into communities of "political leaning".

And so if someone respected in that political leaning says "X is good" the community members parrot "X is good", sometimes twisting and contorting and lying to themselves that X is also good for them.

I just realized the -ism for this behavior: tribalism.

People in America have been losing trust in institutions for many decades now. Don’t believe the government, the scientists, the doctors, the corporations, etc. People bond over these things.

Add the internet and this amplifies x100.

Indeed. A phenomenon indistinguishable from an attack.

Blaming 'foreign adversaries' for it is also a phenomenon indistinguishable from an attack to destabilize and bring on paranoia.

> Add the internet and this amplifies x100.

Ye. But I don't think it is the internet in itself, but the algorithmic feeds.

I don't know what 'crack pot' is the new hot thing nowadays, but Alex Jones did not pop up in my feed by him self. Nowadays it seems so much more... dunno. Surreal?

Youtube Doktor Joe Rogan told us that it is close to 60 doses they give to children in US.

Most other countries it is about 10, and those are the above mentioned Polio, Tetanus etc.

Even ChatGPT could not explain what those other 50 dangerous diseases were.

Here in Argentina children get during the first year like 2 vaccine injections every two month. (Sometimes it's 3, sometimes it's 1, I don't remember.) Most of them are combined vaccines against 2 or 3 illness. (Again, some injections are against only one, I think there is one that combines 5, ...) So in total during the first year they get like 25 or 30 vaccines.

After the first year, the vaccination rates decrece, so let's double that to 50 or 60 vaccines during childhood.

As I said, many of them are combined, and may are repeated. We had a small melease outbreak and they got 1 or 2 extra MRR dosis on top of the 2 or 3 usual doses. I think polio has 5 dosis, we used to combine the IPV and the OPV, but now we use only the IPV.

I don't expect our vaccination list to be very usual. I guess we mostly copied from the standard of the WHO and I expect other countries to have a similar one. We are adding dengue now for teenagers, so there may be some customization.

So, my recommendation is to ignore ChatGPT and ask Doktor Joe Rogan for the list of the other 50 dangerous diseases. My guess is that the difference disappears when it's possible to compare both lists side by side.

In Finland it is 13. THIRTEEN.

You can see the lists in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_schedule

I count 16 in Finland, but 3 are only for risk groups, so let's agree in 13. But each one has multiple doses and boosters. And some are combined. I'm too lazy to calculate the exact numbers of injections, but it's much bigger than 13. Let's say 25 or 30.

I count 17 in the United states, but they list varicella and herpest zoster as different in spite it's the same virus. The table is a mess because it has the normal dose, the catch-up doses and the doses only for risk groups. Counting only the yellow one that are the normal doses I get 35.

So it's more like 35 vs 25 if you count injections, or 16 vs 13 if you count illnes. But it's definetively not 60 vs 13.

> or 16 vs 13 if you count illnes. But it's definetively not 60 vs 13.

If the person listened to this information, it's easy to confuse 16 and 60.

Too late to edit;

usual -> unusual

My brother had a kid recently and their doc was pushing the Hep B shot like they got a commission on it. Mom gets tested for it multiple times during pregnancy. Doctor had no good answer on why an infant needs a vaccine for a STD. The excuses I've seen: they could trip and fall on a needle at a playground (lol)?

The vaccine is effective for several decades, and hep b can spread through bodily fluids not just needles. Exposure to another kid with hep b could spread to your brothers kid.

From what I've seen on social media from the soft anti vax crowd, pediatricians nowadays are pushing for a lot more vaccines compared to their parents' time. There is a reason for each individual vaccine, sure, but the difference is huge and something to be wary of.

Alternatively: we have more vaccines available today than previous generations, they’ve gotten cheaper, and are (in some cases) more effective.

Problem is the risk vs reward question seems to be ignored in favor of talking about just the reward part. I'm sure there are reasons for not talking about the risk part like you don't want to be too chummy with the anti vax crowd or you don't want to discourage vaccine use but it makes most people's bs detector go off. There is never reward without risk.

Is that why its being pushed so hard? Or is it perverse incentives in the pharmaceutical industry? A case can certainly be made for both.

Or from sloppy kisses from adult relatives.

AFAIK it’s not spread through saliva, or maybe the probability of spread is just much lower? But yes, sloppy kisses from adult relatives are gross and spread other things like herpes.

The problem is kids sometimes end up unlucky with the wrong parents. Docs push vaccines because they’re cheap and effective, and the risk profile is low. You can’t fix parents who think they know better, you can only avoid your own kids interacting with the kids of those parents.

(have kids, fully vaccinated)

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