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Comment by robertlagrant | Hacker News Reader

> (I’d like something to offer my conservative friends/family who increasingly think all immigration should be verboten.)

Not proberts, but observing left wing media in the States over the last 8-10 years I've seen a carpet bombing of the same concept: eliding the difference between immigration and illegal immigration. If you want to talk to your conservative friends and family I'd start by checking whether or not it's illegal immigration they're against. Even the Democrats seem to be noticing that people don't like open border policies and are scrambling to adjust campaign promises in light of this.

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Oh yes it's just illegal immigrants that Republicans hate. That's why they spread lies about refugees and other legal immigrants, right?

The context was getting on with friends and family.

I understand you might not able to think in these terms when it comes to the hated enemy, but if you think of all people as people, even Republicans, then you might notice that they don't all think the same things. Or even that they don't hate illegal immigrants, but think that laws are a good idea and criminals should be punished, not rewarded. This is just understanding both sides 101, in case you do break out of this mindset.

> if you think of all people as people, even Republicans

The OP didn't accuse Republicans of being non-people. They specifically made a -- true, incidentally -- factual claim:

> > That's why they spread lies about refugees and other legal immigrants, right

It is notable, though, that it is the Republican candidate that has very directly been using dehumanizing language. And you are here asking people to get into a both-sides argument. The situation isn't symmetric: the arguments shouldn't have to be.

> I understand you might not able to think in these terms when it comes to the hated enemy

Also notable it is that one specific candidate is using the term "enemy within" to describe US residents. It's not the Democrat.

> Or even that they don't hate illegal immigrants, but think that laws are a good idea and criminals should be punished, not rewarded.

Again, your statement has nothing to do with what you're responding to.

> Also notable it is that one specific candidate is using the term "enemy within" to describe US residents. It's not the Democrat.

It's also notable that one whole media and political morass has been calling a candidate "literally Hitler" and he's been shot by a would-be assassin. Almost... more notable.

> Again, your statement has nothing to do with what you're responding to.

What do you mean? If someone says the OP's friends and relatives hate a group of people, it's worth mentioning that they may not hate them at all.

Did I say "all Republicans"? Nope. This is understanding English 101.

If you say "Republicans don't just hate illegal immigrants" it's pretty isomorphic to "All Republicans don't just hate illegal immigrants". Maybe that's English 102.

"Teachers use chalk daily." - definitely a true statement. Some amount of teachers do.

"All teachers use chalk daily." - definitely a false statement. Certainly some teachers don't.

Again, English 101.

No, "Teachers use chalk daily" is nowhere near true. It would've been mostly true 30 years ago, before whiteboards, and now it's definitely not the case. The hair you're splitting only works when the approximation that omits the "all" is close to 100%.

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