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Comment by rubymancer | Hacker News Reader

> Average wages in America’s poorest state, Mississippi, are higher than the averages in Britain, Canada and Germany.

This doesn't sound right.

Googling around, the median income (a much better metric than average) between Mississippi and Germany are about the same.

A huge difference: Britain, Canada and Germany don't have to pay for health care and education. I'm not sure how to factor that in, but something tells me if you do you'll find our Canadian and European friends are doing drastically better than those in Jackson, MS.

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> but something tells me if you do you'll find our Canadian and European friends are doing drastically better than those in Jackson, MS.

This will show a lot of selection bias. Any Europeans with American friends who are in the forum are unlikely to be representative of the median German/Brit.

I have a cousin who is a mid-level manager in a steel plant in southern Illinois near near Missouri and he lives like a petty king. I've known FedEx drivers with lake houses in low cost of living areas. Middle income people in low cost of living states often live quite well in the US.

>Britain, Canada and Germany don't have to pay for health care and education

That is not true: British taxpayers have to pay for the health care and education of Brits.

The point is that when you add the money the government spends on you plus the money you spend on yourself, America has significantly more money per-person to go around.

What you should have written is that although America spends more money on health care per person than Britain does, Americans have worse health, so the money is spent less efficiently than in Britain.

(It is also true that America spends more on "criminal justice", e.g., prisons, but has more crime, so the criminal-justice money must be being spent less efficiently.)

> but something tells me if you do you'll find our Canadian [...] friends are doing drastically better than those in Jackson, MS.

Perhaps true, but also keep in mind that Canada and the US were on more equal standing until the last five years or so, when we started to see a significant divergence emerge. You can ride on the past for a while. Assuming the trend continues, it may simply be that it is too early to see Canada turn into Mississippi.

Europeans and Canadians might be healthier and better educated, but its very unlikely they'll earn more than an American electrician.

The European has paid leave and a somewhat existing medicare system. I do not think this is taken into the equation?

GDP calculations capture the difference between paid / unpaid leave, and government healthcare spending.

It can be argued that Europeans are happier than Americans, but not that they're wealthier than Americans.

I have no idea what you mean by "somewhat existing." Public health expenditure in the US is more per capita than any other country's public + private spending combined.

This does not mean the US is healthier (after all absurdly high spending is in part to cover health issues). But money per se is not remotely the problem and public health expenditure very loudly exists.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Life_expectancy_vs_h...

> but its very unlikely they'll earn more than an American electrician.

what's he going to be putting his money to, if not being healthier and smarter?

otherwise he's just fatter, dumber, and full of plastic kitch manufactured overseas, much of which is now floating around his bloodstream in microscopic form.

but hey, at least he's got a big truck.

Median income can also be misleading. If the government is taking on lots of debts to pay for things like health care or education, that's not necessarily sustainable economics.

GDP Per Capita is overall the best metric when thinking on a long-term economic scale.

As to how the people in Jackson, MS are doing - a lot of this comes down to what communities are doing with that wealth. There are lots of young professionals having decent lives, even in Mississippi - but a lot of that wealth disappears into cars and big private properties and other unequally distributed things.

I lived in Ontario for ~18 years. While national healthcare is fantastic (and the US should totally have it), Canadians are getting squeezed, and have been for the last 5-6 years.

When I lived in Ontario 20 years ago, Ontarians were getting squeezed and complaining then to.

There used to be something like 3 MRI machines across the entire province. The province containing 1/3 of the country's entire population. Wait times for screening procedures could be months. My exe's entire family drove down to New York to get their dental care, paying out of pocket, when it mattered. (UB's College of Dentistry became the 7th best dental school in the nation & 11th in the world largely on the back of this trade)

It's better now, but not better _than what can be bought_ in the United States. Does the US need to improve? Certainly.

Canadians are getting squeezed by the same things that are squeezing America -- and much of the world. Just slower, and with a few more safety nets.

The ability of people to actually receive free medical services has certainly been in a downward trend over the last decade or so.

You'd think The Economist would know better than to use the average there. Stats 101. Geez.

A truck driver in Oklahoma makes more than a doctor in Portugal

Doctor in Portugal has healthcare and won't die at 55 from a preventable heart attack.

Instead, OK guy gets to have a Ford F-150, so he can drive a truck when he's not driving his truck.

And he doesn't have to pay high taxes, which is nice because it means his kids only get school 4 days a week: https://okcfox.com/news/local/rural-school-district-district...

Of course that means he has to be thousands more in daycare, but at least it's not the gubrment!

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