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Comment by NeoTar | Hacker News Reader

It is said that Julius Caesar borrowed so much money to become elected pontifex maximus that he essentially forced his creditors to support his political ambitions in the hope of seeing some payment on the debts.

So, essentially, ‘twas ever so.

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And for a slight twist on the same theme, MMM Ponzi schemer Sergei Mavrodi, who had no political ambition whatsoever, ran for the State Duma (which granted him immunity from prosecution: the only issue he turned up to vote on) after his scheme collapsed and was voted in by thousands of people whose only hope of seeing the savings he'd conned them out of again rested on trusting his promises to sort everything out

I suspect even just loaning powerful people money at that time was effectively being on them / a political act in the first place. Less so that it built up over time and surprised anyone.

This is true to some extent, but his debtors had a strong interest in Julius Caesar's continued success--which means that even if his later actions were ones that the debtors would not have supported originally, their wagons had been hitched to his and they had a very strong incentive to support him.

Too indebted to fail

hahaha gave me a chuckle.

While studying anthropology I briefly heard about the theory that in monarchies the support of the nobility should be conceived of as an investment. It really stuck with me.

That man really had the gaul to do anything.

I wonder if Pontifex Maximus is the oldest title still in use.

Depending on your viewpoint and what “counts”, king is probably the oldest in a loose non-specific way. Though this did lead me down a rabbit hope where I found an interesting bit of trivia. The Akkadian word for king, “šar”, is suspiciously close to the Slavic word for monarch, “tsar”. I can’t find any concrete evidence of a connection, but hey, it’s fun to ponder whether it’s coincidental or not.

Isn't "tsar" derived from "Caesar" which was originally just someone's name?

I thought tsar was derived from Caesar? (Or is that just a folk etymology?)

There is no connection. Tsar and Kaiser are both derived from the name Caesar, which became a royal title (along with Augustus) in the 300s under Diocletian.

Doesn't seem related--looks like šar is Semitic in origin [0] while tsar comes to the language by way of Caesar [1].

0: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%A1arrum#Akkadian

1: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tsar#Etymology

I see people pointing out the "Caesar -> tsar" link (and I've heard that myself too), but I have to wonder if Akkadian "sar" somehow became "Caesar".

I believe "Caesar" derives from the word "caesaries", which means "hair/curls/beard-hairs".

Romans at the time were using three names, the given name (Gaius), the family/clan name (Julius) and the cognomen (Caesar), which was originally a nickname that became hereditary to identify a particular branch of a family.

So, the emperor of Russia was called the tsar because Gaius Julius or one of his ancestors was nicknamed "Curly" or maybe "Beardy".

All the statues I’ve seen of him make his hair look not so curly, and they don’t show him having a beard. This open up the possibility that many royal titles are ultimately named after some Italian guy’s magnificent chest hair (which would be hard to capture in a statue).

I'm with you all the way, but I'm pretty sure cognomen had transitioned from nicknames to hereditary by Gaius Julius Caesar's time. Also, clean-shaven was a relatively new fashion in Rome -- Cicero, one of Caesar's political enemies and of the previous generation, had a speech complaining about how women these days liked pretty clean-shaven younger men, and not the robust full-bearded old patricians, like they should.

Hopefully nobody wrote down the true source of his nickname so I can plausibly continue believing…

Another fun idea which has been proposed is that it’s an ironic nickname - so rather than ‘Baldy’ (which is you see busts of Caesar is certainly plausible) people called him or his ancestors ‘hairy’.

Are you familiar with the Three Stooges?

Another less popular theory is that it's from caesus which means to cut, which would be interesting because the cesarean section, also known as a C-section, was named after Caesar so it'd be a bit of circular definition.

>because Gaius Julius or one of his ancestors

Sextus Julius Caesar is the first Julii Caesares according to wikipedia. I just love that the term for all of them is Julii Caesares.

Etymonline [0] says 'tsar' comes from Caesar, which comes from the name Caius Julius Caesar. “šar” would therefore be unrelated.

[0] https://www.etymonline.com/word/Caesar

> wonder if Pontifex Maximus is the oldest title still in use

The titles Kaiser and Czar literally derive from Cæsar. Meanwhile, we still maintain consuls in diplomatic relations between countries who often have Senate houses filled with Senators.

I guess if Caesar was borrowing from the Pontifex Maximus, that title must pre-date those based on his name.

Caesar was the name of Gaius Iulius, not his title. That came later. Pontifex maximus was an honorific title before Caesar's name became one.

Technically, the current Pontifex Maximus is (or at least claims to be) the official inheritor of the original title (which is very likely to pre-date the creation of the surname Caesar in the Julia family).

That's not the case for "senator", which turned into a generic word and it's not directly connected to the Senate of the Roman Republic.

Pharaoh predates it for some thousand years.

Where is that title still being used?

Probably the same places 'Pontifex Maximus' is still in use.

"Pontifex Maximus" was originally the high priest of Jupiter in Rome, dating all the way back to the Roman monarchy and before the Roman republic. "Pontifex Maximus" is currently the official title of the pope (in a sense, still the highest priest in Rome). I don't think anybody still has the title "Pharaoh".

For a while the Pharaoh did actually reside in Rome, starting with Caesar Augustus (who was also Pontifex Maximus). Augustus was hailed as a god by both the Roman imperial cult and the pharaonic cult.

Maximinus Daza (the eastern Roman emperor during the Tetrarchy) was the last holder of the title Paraoh, and I think he reigned from Nicomedia, in Anatolia.

It’s funny that Pharaoh died out with the rise of christianity, but Pontifex lived on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_pharaoh

Who's the pharaoh currently residing in the Vatican?

I would suggest Emperor of Japan, which started (according to legend) in 660 BC.

I don't know if that has been continuous, though.

Indeed. Shill your own bag. Saw it with Bitcoin too. And every company VCs invest in and the public invests in through wall street.

“Too big to fail”.

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