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Comment by Animats | Hacker News Reader

The US Army is cutting back in this area. The Future Attack Reconnaissance Aircraft, which was a small attack helicopter, has been cancelled.[1] If it flies low and slow over the enemy, it's going to be shot down. Better to send many drones and lose some of them.

The concept of tactical air superiority is now questionable. The USAF used to boast that American troops have not had to fight under a hostile sky since 1952. That era seems to be over. There are so many portable systems now that can take out an aircraft.

Jam-resistant drones are already a thing. Drones are going to have to be shot down one at a time. This is quite possible but the missiles to do it can cost more than the drones.

[1] https://www.defensenews.com/air/2024/02/08/us-army-spent-bil...

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Dumb question: Why are 12ga shotguns, possibly on small auto-targeting platforms, not a thing yet? Like a CWIS/CRAM but tiny and for close-in engagements?

The problem with shotguns is that you either have a small number of pellets (12ga) or a small amount of mass to do damage (bird shot). So with 12ga specifically, while it's more effective than a rifle round -- the pellets spread quickly enough that it's only a huge advantage when the drone is in the terminal phase. This is why in WW2, they would put timed fuses inside the AA shells so that they didn't have to hit the aircraft directly with the shell but the round didn't spread so far that it was useless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug

You may as well use rifle bullets then.

and the rifled bullets will be more aerodynamic and also have rifling for stability. .50 BMG or an autocannon or something.

shotgun slugs aren't usable in any serious, consistent way outside of maybe 20 meters (~60 ft). nasty stuff if you're in range, through.

Bullets do not have rifling, that is done by the barrel of the rifle.

Shotgun slugs can be useful well beyond 20 meters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug#:~:text=A%20slug%....

As a Canadian, I am normally not the one correcting others on the basics of firearms.

I hear you, and a prox shell would be ideal, but I have a hard time seeing the comparisons. The scale of attack drones is so small and fast and close, and the drones are very fragile. Perhaps the hand grenade "bomber" types can be far enough up, but the FPV impactor types are right up in your face and have to fly at you to be effective.

I would be surprised if we didn't eventually see something like you describe. I could see it protecting bases, trenches, encampments, etc.

But I think an open question is if it could be made portable enough to tote around on the battlefield.

4-legged robot mule with ordinance. I mean, they are already putting rifles on the robot dogs.

Apparently they are a thing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/05/09/shotgu...

If attack drones can move like racing drones, that’s going to be a hard shot to pull off though

The FPV impactor types have some kind of approach phase I'd imagine.

The loitering "drop grenades on cars" kind are probably much easier to knock down.

Not 12 gauge, but full-auto punt guns with automated targeting and fire controls could be highly effective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun

Look around and you can find tons of Russian and Ukrainian soldiers skeet shooting drones with various levels of success.

There are issues though. Skeet guns are 28-34" barrels which is super-long. These guns are also heavy. Once you have ammo loaded up, you're talking 11+ pounds. These guns size and weight make them almost unusable for anything outside of drones. Carrying around an extra gun and heavy ammo is a big commitment both physically and logistically.

Double-barreled sawed-off shotgun in Doom style. Anyway you may not have enough time to fire more, and save quite a bit on weight and maneuverability. Maybe some special longer shells with more pellets, any slight touch and those lightweight plastics break and drone goes down.

I'm imagining a shoulder mounted auto-targeting pistol.

9mm rounds go 1500 ft per second, so probably within 300 meters a drone wouldn't have the reaction time to dodge a bullet with precise aim.

It could also be mounted on a dog, real or robotic.

Actually building this thing though might be a science fiction dream.

An FPV can clear those 300 meters in 6 seconds. Maybe six seconds is enough for target identification, aiming, and firing, but it is a tight timeline for tracking an ~1kg object ~0.3km away.

> I'm imagining a shoulder mounted auto-targeting pistol.

About a decade ago, DARPA developed a .50 caliber gun round that has onboard guidance.[1] They were thinking snipers, not anti-drone, but maybe the concept can be adapted.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXACTO

They are using shotguns but drones are small and usually pretty quiet.

We’re seeing a spike in UFO sightings, so something has been cooked up and is being tested.

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