Unseen Thunderbirds film reels found in garden shed | Hacker News Reader

Unseen Thunderbirds film reels found in garden shed

bbc.co.uk

218 pointssamizdis95 comments

Let me use this moment to turn your attention to the superior successor of Thunderbirds...Terrahawks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaOQA-wcm2w

The opening sequence 3D wireframe graphics were rendered on a cluster of prototype ZX Spectrums and were the inspiration for ILM's groundbreaking work on Tron.

Not actually true. The title sequence was hand drawn, and the series didn’t even start filming until after Tron had come out.

Indeed, at it seems particularly unlikely when you consider that the absolute state of the art in the ZX Spectrum demoscene nearly fifty years on still isn't as high-resolution as Terrahawks' title sequence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJd6GtM5P9E

By the way, there is an excellent orchestral rendition of the theme music by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, seemingly from a recording for the 'On Screen' album in 1986:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lEQFrl9bEE

Yes, it looks similar to the Hitch-Hiker's Guide graphics from around the same time, they were cartoons.

Kevin Davies, who animated the opening and ending credits for Terrahawks (credited as "Video Game & Titles") was an assistant to Rod Lord when he was making the graphics for the TV version of Hitch-hiker's.

This was discussed a few weeks ago.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41509558

More practical methods were fairly common during that period since they was actually cheaper and quicker than real computer graphics. The wireframe sequences in "Escape from New York", for instance, were actually miniatures with fluorescent paint applied to the edges.

Even Tron had quite a bit of rotoscoping with a „computer look“, especially the scenes with human actors. Not shots like the lightcycle scene though, those were actual CGI.

Fun fact: That was one of James Cameron's first gigs.

Never knew this series but little me (from the Netherlands, from 1982) would have loved this show, I certainly loved Thunderbirds (even though 50% of the show was the same TB launch sequence ;) ). I feel sad that I seem to have lost the capacity to experience the epicness of such series/films.

Anyway, very cool that that Mars base is from 2020... It seemed so far way back then. The SciFi future with Mars bases and flying cars that never happened. We did get Smartphones though... What will humanity look like in 40 years? Unrecognizable probably.

I actually loved the new series

https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbirds-Are-Go-Season-1/dp/B086H...

As well as being a huge fan of the originals

Wow ... big part of my childhood ... those robot ball things! Weird how this seems largely forgotten

According to Wikipedia, problems with broadcasting rights meant it wasn't really repeated after the original 1980's broadcasts.

As an aside, it's hardly surprising our American cousins haven't heard of Terrahawks. I doubt the tongue in cheek humour (typified by 'robot ball' Sergeant Major Zero) would translate well!

You're talking about the generation that grew up with Monty Python and The Goodies.

We were also familiar with the latex puppets because of Spitting Image and the Genesis "Land of Confusion" video.

And the idea of a ball-shaped droid with a Cockney accent just seemed like a big miscalculation, unworthy of the Anderson legacy.

But to be fair, if you go back and watch Space: 1999, most of the episodes aged poorly in retrospect except for one or two of them (e.g., Dragon's Domain still holds up).

> You're talking about the generation that grew up with Monty Python and The Goodies

Yet would be entirely baffled at the concept of a British panto.

> ball-shaped droid with a Cockney accent

That my friend, was the voice of the one and only Windsor Davis, initiating his role as St Mjr from 'It ain't half hot mum'. Though I do recall a Scottish zeriod ("droid") and one with a French accent and handlebar moustache.

> Yet would be entirely baffled at the concept of a British panto.

Monty Python, and in particular Terry Gilliam's animation style, were both heavily panto influenced.

It was also a nerd rite-of-passage to watch Eraserhead which was directed by David Lynch, who then got to direct the Elephant Man.

The panto scene at the end of Elephant Man is one of the few scenes in a movie that wrecks me every time I watch it. Unfortunately it gets scrubbed every time someone posts it online.

> Wow ... big part of my childhood ... those robot ball things!

Yes! And the noughts-and-crosses game they played during the credits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nJ2vyXKOOE

This was my show as a kid, the one my parents had to get us back home in time to watch or else much stroppiness would occur. I haven't heard it for many years, but the opening notes of the theme tune made me grin ear to ear.

How was CGI output with enough scaling to look good on film, when the Spectrum only had composite output?

Similarly, with early CGI like Tron, what was the render/target resolution for film?

Not sure about Tron but here are a few details [1] about the Foonly F1 used on that film and how it was later used for Flight of the Navigator:

> They had pushed for Triple-I to build the DFP, the first (that I know of) high-resolution digital film printer for motion pictures. This was the next generation PFR, using an 8" CRT which had fast-decaying phosphors so that it could be used for scanning in film (using photomultiplier tubes built into a special camera) as well as printing. The imagery was amazing

> Since the Foonly only had enough disk storage to hold the frame being computed and the frame being printed, the numbers worked out like this: 30 seconds of film at 24 frames per second works out to 720 images each computed and printed at 6000 x 4000 pixels.

[1] http://dave.zfxinc.net/f1.html

The trick with Tron was that it was not CGI.

Tron was a mix of CGI and not-CGI. The not-CGI stuff, w/ all the photographic technique, was pretty wild. The CGI, in contrast, was not as wild.

I believe this was the documentary I watched a couple of years ago re: the making of Tron that went into a lot of detail about the effects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbgHMrLPQrE

The ZX Spectrum bit seems unlikely, considering that was a Z80 box and the quality of those graphics is pretty good.

See the Terrahawks game on the Spectrum:

https://youtu.be/diLez1bM3jo

Is there a source for this, that would actually be interesting.

> the quality of those graphics is pretty good.

IIUC grandparent post refers only to the sphere & ships projected into 2d stills, not all of the titles. A software wireframe renderer seems "easy" compared to modeling the ships. Even if it took a day to render each one, this was all done in the service of a pilot episode, so probably not a lot of pressure. They're on the screen so briefly before fading to the filmed miniature, I suppose it would easily hide most issues.

This is not true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrahawks#Title_sequence_and_...

People aren't getting the joke because nobody here realizes how essentially crappy the ZX Spectrum was. You'd do better to render it on a four-function calculator or, perhaps, an abacus.

Thank you :-) Personally I thought the "cluster" part would cause most consternation, but apparently that part sounds legit :-)

Wow #1, I don't think I ever expected to read "cluster of prototype ZX Spectrums", even on Zombo.com where anything is possible.

Wow #2, Terrahawks was in a box in the back of my mind for a long time. Don't think I ever actually watched, I just saw it, if you know what I mean. But I was about 7 when it came out so that makes sense. I remember the Zeroids more than I remember any of the characters.

I still remember an episode of Blue Peter where they got you to make your own Tracy Island. I vaguely recollect blocking the toilet with toilet paper as you needed the inside of a toilet roll for part of it.

This sounds so much like something my youngest would do, haha. I always wonder if the creators realize when they come up with this stuff that a ton of rogue kids are going to flush entire rolls to get the tube.

That's why school supply stores will sell you 4,800 tubes for only $1,640!

https://www.discountschoolsupply.com/arts-crafts/arts-crafts...

I never _quite_ got that thing built. I came close, but then never painted it maybe?

This was in the early 90s when thunderbirds was being reshown on tv, comics reprinted and in the shops, toys available at all good toy shops etc

Howver the toy Tracy island was out of stock - demand exceeded the supply. With Christmas rapidly approaching and a lot of kids about to be unhappy, the “build your own” program lodged in the national conscious - everyone knew Blue Peter, it had been running for decades with its sticky back plastic and one they made earlier.

The documentary "Supermarionation" (no relation to Super Mario) on Netflix is about the making of Thunderbirds and the other puppeteer shows from the same studio. Mind you, it's a typical Netflix documentary with 90% interviews from a handful of people.

Is it worth watching though?

I wouldn't mind if a documentary was an interview with just 1 person if it's good. The problem with those Netflix ones is they have a handful of people repeat the same thing over and over and over. Then they pad it out even further in between those repetitions with pan and zoom of a couple of barely relevant photos or newspaper clippings or illustrations, perhaps a clip of a news anchor reporting from the relevant time etc. What would be 30 seconds in a good documentary ends up being 5 minutes and 1 episode becomes 6.

I now usually give up and read the Wikipedia page once I spot these techniques.

I watched this when it first appeared. From memory it was a good behind the scenes documentary and worth the watch if you had a passing interest in it as a kid.

you'll be wanting https://www.youtube.com/@century21films28

I tried to watch the McAfee documentary and gave up after 20 minutes of that slog. How they managed to make the documentary about this man boring is beyond me, and answering that would itself make a more interesting documentary.

In short, it was so bad that I will no longer watch any Netflix documentary again.

Well some info about the concept, making of, follow-up series, and the people involved revisiting the studio (which is a car garage now but still has some of the original sets / movie making gear like gantries) was interesting enough, but honestly I was watching it in bed in a few sittings and kept falling asleep, lol. The story would make for a decent book I'd say.

Thunderbirds was made in the 60's?? How come it was such a hit when I was a kid in the 90's? I had their fortress as a toy.

Maybe there was a revival around that time? Otherwise I'd guess nostalgia from parents?

From wikipedia: ” In the early 1990s, Matchbox launched a new range of toys to coincide with the BBC2 repeats. Sales figures for Christmas 1992 surpassed those achieved by Star Wars merchandise in the 1970s and 1980s.”

There was also an episode of the popular kids TV show Blue Peter, where they showed you how to make Tracy Island. I believe that helped boost it's popularity.

I think that was downstream to deal with the fact the real toy was expensive and hard to get due to demand.

IIRC it was Blue Peter's most requested instructions ever.

Quite a signficant public service by whoever designed that when you think about it.

The original instructions are online!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/bluepeter/makes/tracyisla...

Via https://www.bbc.com/videos/c511wey54g4o ("1993: Tracy Island - Blue Peter")

The next video in the archive is about "this new thing called the Internet", from 1994 https://www.bbc.com/videos/czv20818q2no

This was huge. Everyone in my class was trying to build it! It occasionally gets talked about to this day

With Anthea Turner, no less... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM_iV7R8rTM

Back in the good old days, when kids had attention spans!

For all those who didn't have the privilege of growing up as a kid in the 90's, this went viral before going viral was a thing :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UzWkEHOdZA

Yes. Probably because Terrahawks (80s) was such a flop, and so there was scope to repeat Thunderbirds.

Not that the others: Joe 90, Supercar, etc got much in the way of repeats. That said I did enjoy Captain Scarlet and Stingray as a kid.

There was about eight years between Terrahawk's failure and the BBC deciding to repeat Thunderbirds to great success so the two things are probably unrelated.

There were a lot of repeats when I was a kid (80-90s). Shows like Thunderbirds and the like were mainstays of my TV watching.

They were really good for their time, and hadn't really aged too badly by the 80s and 90s, so it made good financial sense to repeat them. Combine that with the money to be made from toys and it was a much better deal than forking out for new programmes.

Because it was really well produced, and brilliantly written and directed! Even now it looks great.

Yep, here's Peter Cook and Dudley Moore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oMi_Hv3Sws

full version https://www.facebook.com/WeirdHollywood/videos/2021-march-pe...

There was an even a (quite crappy) Amiga game! Coincided with re-runs on Turkish (newly formed) cable TV - such good (or not) memories.

https://www.lemonamiga.com/games/details.php?id=1056

There was a really good Thunderbirds game for its time on the inferior Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48k. I was amazed all those years ago by its puzzle gameplay design. You can play it here.

https://archive.org/details/zx_Thunderbirds_1985_Firebird_So...

Edit : to set up controls since it's not noted on that page, you'll need to press R ( Redefine keys! ) and that'll get you started!

How to play : you swap between thunderbird 1 and 2 each ship by pressing spacebar ( default ) or whatever you configured it to. You'll notice the ship selected in the bottom left corner of the screen.

I still have that island fortress thing somewhere in a closet, or maybe my parents. With the pool that could swivel out the way, the trees that fold down and some sound effects IIRC. Was all the rage in my class when I was a kid (in the 90s).

Yup, same. I don't still have it though. :(

I also had the toys in the 90s and possibly attempted the blue Peter make of the fortress. I even had a duvet cover and lunchbox. These things were of course bought by my parents who watched the show in their childhoods. In turn my kid loves sonic and I have bought him hats and jumpers etc.

I think these revivals intentionally capitalise on nostalgia.

PSA: despite the trope, please do not store film in your garden shed. Film is very delicate and hates moisture and temperature fluctuation.

Dont worry- as long as there is PSA personal around, you know there is a guy, whos job is it to fix the films discolouration and damages in post. So its okayish and greyish.

But in Britain all things end up in the garden shed eventually…

> please do not store film in your garden shed.

Under no circumstances should you store nitrate film (or film you even think might be nitrate) in your home. It is more flammable than petrol.

There is a damn good reason people store old film in garden sheds and not in the house. It isn't a 'trope'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_base

An important thing to be aware of. However, storing nitrate film in your shed would still be illegal and inadvisable. There is a decade buffer ensuring Thunderbirds was not filmed on nitrate. tbh I don't think the is any nitrate film stored in a shed which would still be recoverable.

I'll ensure that from now on my shed is only used for old tins of paint, firelighters, matches, leaky jerrycans of diesel, fireworks, and gas cylinders.

My nitrate film can go in the loft instead.

Guncotton (a better name for nitrate film) cannot be extinguished (because it contains sufficient oxygen); can autoignite; and is illegal to store.

So if not the garden shed, then: Where do I store my collection of nitrate films?

Don't ask 20th Century Fox:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_Fox_vault_fire

Speaking of dodgy things in sheds, as a heads-up Hexamine fuel tablets are now illegal to possess in the UK - so campers and model steam engine enthusiasts beware.

Never heard of this show but puppets style seems to have later became the basis for the Team America puppets[0].

[0] https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/...

That was pretty much a direct homage to (or spoof of) Supermarionation, the puppetry style used for Thunderbirds and a number of other shows.

Looks like the majority of it is the same as what aired, just with some alternative edits. Which makes sense as the guy was an editor for the show.

These aren’t “unseen” episodes etc.

Nah, but the title is accurate; the reels had been unseen. And there's some unused / unaired scenes (or, at least one). Still a valuable historic artifact.

I've just shown these to my kid, as he seems not to like most of todays TV. He loves them. I never watched them myself, so I am learning a lot of all your coments. A board game? Making the island? I'll have some research to do.

Nice childhood memories: "Thunderbirds are go!"

I always wondered how the palm trees were able to be flattened:).

I always assumed everything on the island was made to LOOK real, but everything was cleverly replicated and engineered.

Wait, they have all those digital scans, but the article does not include a single frame from any one of them? I know they said it needs restoration work, but still...

The Endeavour episode 'Apollo' (s6e2) takes place in a studio much like the Andersons' - recommended

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/drama/endeavour-apollo-moon-ra...

The Thunderbirds board game is an excellent co-op game and it is worth playing if you can find it. It was made by the same guy who created Pandemic and Forbidden Island/Desert.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/160610/thunderbirds

Are there blooper reels where the puppets swear when they blow a line?

Captain Scarlet was where it was at, such a scary vibe in that show.

What about UFO? Not puppets (though by the Anderson team) but live-action with sexy ladies in purple wigs and somewhat creepy vibe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_(British_TV_series)

I remember it but not too well. The Invaders[1] was scarier I think...

[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061265/

Definitely. I remember months of anticipation as a kid leading up to Christmas Day when I received my Captain Scarlet outfit.

Don't know why but I never liked shows with puppets, not even as a kid, and I still don't like them today, the only one exception being Farscape.

Postman Pat looks quite nice, stop motion of pupers with a lot of joints.

Most of the Gerry Anderson shows are available to stream on ITVX in the UK. The Re-imaginings of Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlett in 3D are there too.

Fireball XL-5, Supercar, Joe 90, Space Precinct (sub needed), UFO, Terrahawks, Space:1999, The Secret Service, Stingray, Gerry Anderson's New Captain Scarlet (3D), Captain Scarlet, Thunderbirds the Anniversary Episodes, Thunderbirds Are Go (3D), Thunderbirds.

Many of these are on Peacock in the U.S.

One of my favourite childhood series....

The film survived 60 years. Wonder if modern storage media (SSD, NVME) would survive that long?

Is this what Mozilla Thunderbird was named after? It took me a while to parse this title as something other than an email client! Wikipedia doesn't list a name origin for Thunderbird, just that it was renamed from Minotaur

Thunderbird is also a common deity in Pacific Northwest native mythology. The Seattle area AHL hockey team is the Thunderbirds. As is the UBC Football team.

Thunderbirds is actively airing on TV today, there's a channel owned by Weigel Broadcasting (MeTV Toons) which shows it.

Great show I loved as a kid! I have the series collection on DVD.

We are so fortunate we live in the days of "found never seen before" content is so comon, it's not like people found a way to fake artistic content right?

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