Comment by joshribakoff | Hacker News Reader

Comment by joshribakoff | Hacker News Reader

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You’re probably being downvoted because the metrics they use do not measure whether you are a safe driver.

The metrics simply correlate with accident rates. For example, your premiums increase if you drive late at night, which does not mean that you are a bad driver. Their metrics also do not punish you for accelerating aggressively or driving at high rates of speed (only if you turn too fast or hit the brakes too hard, but if I slam on the brakes in the name of safety, or perform an evasive maneuver, does that mean I am an unsafe driver?)

Also, it’s worth pointing out other insurance companies have a solution for this that has worked for decades. If someone proves they are an unsafe driver by receiving a infraction or filing a claim, then you adjust the rates. No need to spy on the person with invasive amounts of data, or use arbitrary metrics that use correlation instead of causation. But Tesla has to reinvent things that were not broken in the first place, like door handles (just replaced the door handle on a brand new model S because dust got in there LOL).

> if I slam on the brakes in the name of safety, or perform an evasive maneuver, does that mean I am an unsafe driver?

If you have to frequently do that, it's probably because you put yourself in situations where an earlier safer choice of action would have avoided the need. Frequent abrupt/high-G maneuvers to turn accidents into near-misses probably does correlate strongly with future losses (you’re eventually going to “fail to miss”).

"A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skill.” — Frank Borman.

It's a nice sounding quip, but I don't agree at all. The pilot putting themselves in risky situations will acquire a superior skill. Which will partially, but not nearly fully, compensate for the risky situations they put themselves in.

A bear whisperer is more likely than an average person to be eaten by a bear. An experienced cave diver is more likely than an average person to drown.

The airline pilot putting themselves in risky situations for training value is doing that in a simulator, not while flying the line.

I responded to your quote, which didn't restrict itself to airline pilots. There are also people flying their own planes for fun. And military pilots. Both of which may pull risky stunts in real planes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_aerobatics

The point you're missing is that the risk-taking & skill-honing that aggressive drivers perform is being done on public roads with other drivers who just want to commute safely.

Your arguments are about pilots training in controlled conditions that don't put others at unnecessary, non-consensual risk.

I am a GA pilot. I also do sim-based training rather than going out and doing risky in-airplane training in order to be safer. (There are some things that we do in airplane because it’s the most effective way available, but most of the really risky items we also do only in the sim.)

I confined my upthread answer to airline pilots because that’s what’s familiar and relevant to most readers and seems most directly relevant to risk-reduction for passengers/non-participants. (We don’t do risky training exercises with pax on board either.)

Teslas offering isn’t particularly different from any of the other traditional insurance companies that offer the OBD2 dongle or companion app to monitor your driving. The only difference is there’s no opt out for a higher rate.

Also, Tesla isn’t unique here. Root insurance did this well before Tesla did.

I mean if you don't think Tesla already records everything you do in your Tesla car, I don't know what to say.

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