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Comment by getwiththeprog | Hacker News Reader

Does anyone use or have feedback on Sailfish?

I use it since 2014, 10 years and counting. I used the first Jolla 1, which was a lovely device, with a very dim screen :) It uses Wayland, Pulseaudio and Qt. I also used it on a Sony Xperia XA2, and since recently am on a Sony Xperia 10 III.

The Android App support is good, I use Whatsapp and Signal with it, also Firefox and DuckDuckGo browser. Just keep in mind that the Android App support is to get a few apps running that are important to you. Choosing Sailfish also means choosing mostly native apps. The system browser is built on the Firefox engine. SSH support is lovely though. It feels just like desktop Linux.

Don't expect a super slick experience. Companies like Apple and Google are pooring billions into their mobile OS. A small comapny like Jolla cannot keep up with that. Also the Android drivers are as is, the Jolla developers cannot improve on them.

Edit: by the way, it uses Firejail to have apps locked into their own jail.

I owned Jolla and Jolla C phones, that were made by the developers of Sailfish OS, until I got tired of swimming against the tide and switched to Android.

At the time it was very close to desktop GNU/linux OSes: software in rpm packages, wayland, pulse audio, easy SSH to device. It was easy. I still find myself confused when using Android, Sailfish OS was easy.

Not great, not terrible. The android support is hit and miss and the official store is mostly full of junk. Their SDK is rudimentary and there is close to no documentation. After they signed a deal with the russian state I gave up on them. I am on Plasma now which has an overall better experience.

Do you use Plasma on a phone or tablet? If phone, can you say which hardware platform and how "well" it works as an actual phone, making calls, texting, etc?

The basics of making phone calls, texting etc .. all work well on most of the devices - official/community supported.

Older one plus devices, Motorola devices. The guy who ports to some Motorola phones simply doesn't give up and keeps maintaining his ports up to date.

Here's the status of various devices:

https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris

Are you saying that Plasma Mobile runs on any device that is supported by libhybris?

I was asking about Plasma Mobile ( https://plasma-mobile.org/get/ ) that the parent mentioned switching to and I wasn't aware that libhybris is a requirement.

If you want a plasma mobile device, your best option is to find devices that are supported by PostmarketOS. That is a distro (kind of like Ubuntu etc ...), which under the hood can use libhybris to talk to Android drivers etc..

https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices

There maintainers create configurations for those specific devices to make them work well with postmarket OS:

https://gitlab.com/postmarketOS/pmaports/-/blob/master/devic...

On a OnePlus 6 with mobian. GPS is spotty and the camera quality is not as good as on android but it's acceptable.

The deal with Russia is finished. Jolla is free of all Russian ownership now.

https://www.is.fi/taloussanomat/art-2000010451277.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41755272

Part of this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41754074 [We need a real GNU/Linux (not Android) smartphone ecosystem]

IMHO it's good enough for daily usage if your needs are not very sophisticated and you are willing to deal with some rough edges.

It has some fantastic native & open indie applications, see https://openrepos.net.

If it managed to attract some extra users and gain a critical mass, it could become a credible (niche) alternative. It's nearly there.

I used it for years, owning multiple phones, up to 1-2 years ago, then switched to Graphene OS and never looked back. It is an interesting project, with a very innovative UI and very close to a true GNU/Linux on your phone. But ultimately the reasons that led me to change were: (1) they never managed to get the critical mass needed to continue, so there were very few native apps that were more than hobby projects (2) the Android support was never 100% working and stable for me, with frequent connection drops in particular and some unsupported apps (3) a small team meant that both Android and Linux security patches were always months behind upstream (4) it's not really open source in the end.

But mostly it was (2): on my daily driver phone I need to be connected 100% of the time, things like the Android networking silently failing were a major problem.

I'm using Sailfish OS as my primary phone OS since 2013. Also I have non-technical family member using Sailfish OS just fine in similar capacity. :)

I've used it for several years and the feedback from a user point of view is not positive. My sample size includes me and several members of my family who used Sony Xperia devices running SailfishOS for several years.

The Sailfish guys for some odd reason decide to invent their own "user interactions" where you click-slide ("one handed") to do certain opertaions. This makes the UI not only awkward, but NOT intuitive. You don't know what your options are until you perform this strange operation. I get why they did this, it was a way to potentially reduce swiping, etc but now that we have phones with big screens, you can actually put those options in one UI.

Further, basic things like composing a text and attaching a photo requires a round-trip to the photo app where you 'tag' the images you want ONE BY ONE rather than being able to do this inline from the SMS/MMS application. I think this has gotten better recently but for a long time it was SUPER awkward.

Two other perplexing points was how SLOW the UI felt for what should have been compiled Qt code and poor battery life on the older Xperia devices. Maybe they're using QML and it's not compiled?

The Sailfish guys have what I think is an ugly looking UI as well.

They've "dithered" certain parts of the UI so it really looks like old-school EGA/CGA graphics, even though the display is high-DPI and they have what's effectively a TUI style interface.

The only people I know who "LOVE" or claim "it's the best" UI are the same ones who LOVE Zune and Windows Phone UIs which are basically flat UI, almost monocolor nearly TUI type which is what you see pieces of in Win10 as well. Personally I dislike this UI and so do many people I know, there's a reason why UIs have icons and ideally text labels. TUIs have their place but so do GUIs.

If the Sailfish guys abandoned their weird UI ideas and frankly made it more like iOS or Android (I know, so boring, we have to re-invent the wheel just because...) it would actually be compelling.

On the very very plus side of Sailfish, as someone else pointed out, it's basically a GNU/Linux device that uses RPMs. I was able to install dnsmasq, set up DNS based adblock filtering, curate firewall rules and basically harden the device. You could SSH into the device via USB without adb stupidity and once I set it up, it stayed working until the VOLTE switch-over occured.

I think Ubuntu Touch has a better "UI" (I've also run this) but the Ubuntu guys have basically been ignoring VOLTE and since all major US carriers have switched over to VOLTE, your phone basically can't really make calls now on Ubuntu Touch (but that's OK, they've improved a bunch of other stuff! /sarcasm off).

Ubuntu Touch (not that you asked) is also a LOT slower than it should be and because the Ubuntu Touch guys are pursuing an 'Over the Air' update model, since the OS can basically be overwritten, applications aren't actually unpacked at install time but dynamically at run time. On a desktop this is OK but on a phone it leads to very slow app loading times.

I have high hopes for the current batch of Linux phone projects, Mobian, postmarketOS, etc but sadly I'm on Android until these are fully solidified.

Funny, I used the Nokia N9 back in the days and the UI of (what was called Meego back the IIRC) was head and shoulders above everyone else. I believe the they were the first to have general gesture navigation so your comment about reinventing the UI is somewhat off the mark. Android implemented things after them, it's sort of like the argument that unix terminals should adopted ctrl-C for copy because it's the "standard".

I actually bought a Sony Xperia 10 and sail fish because I wanted the UI back so bad, but unfortunately I have some apps which didn't seem to work with android emulation (mainly banking...)

I am not saying the gestures in Android and iOS (app switching, etc) are actually the value add, but in fact things like toggles for options, or a "=" where the options are available to turn on/off. Sailfish forces gestures for things inside an application as well.

No doubt Meego innovated on ideas, but just because they came up with something doesn't make it "good" and just because Apple/Google copied it doesn't prove the validity of the idea.

To that point I would prefer we used more screen real estate (Android, iOS, whatever) and REDUCED the usage of gestures, it would end up being faster. It sometimes takes me multiple attempts to swipe from the bottom on a Android/iOS to get it to do something because I have a screen protector and/or case and the way I'm interacting the with the device is different than the developers who might have worked with a "nude" device.

The screen protector/case issue made UI navigation even worse on Sailfish devices because you had to use this gesture inside a program, not just to switch between applications.

Ubuntu Touch also has a swipe, but from the side where a screen protector is slightly less likely to affect it's ability to register the gesture.

Tbh N9 is still way ahead than today's Android experience imo.

It's also more consistent gestures experience than sailfish. Here you know the gestures are basically for "window/app management". Everything else - they look like regular Android apps.

I actually have the opposite opinion. I like their UI, with the drag-down feature to select options, etc etc. Though I liked the very early Sailfish version on my old Jolla phone even better (it was upgraded on the Jolla phone as well, but yeah, the old one felt better. But not everybody agreed with me on that). The issues I have with my current Sony Xperia w/Sailfish is a) Nearly impossible to get a Japanese SIM card to function (as a second SIM), and when it worked it did so only sporadically. Basically useless. Same SIM worked fine in an Android phone and an iPhone (both brought over from Europe). And the camera.. it works, but it can take many seconds before the photo is actually taken, and all the features of the camera(s) aren't available. Not that I use it much for photos (though the ones I do take look good), but.. (And of course I also hate the long narrow super-slick easy-to-drop Xperia phones, but they're just like nearly every other phones these days, and the only option for an Android-enabled Sailfish phone now)

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