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Comment by cush | Hacker News Reader

I know multiple people who worked at Amazon (I say worked because they've recently quit) who would log two of their three weekly badges by going in the office at 11:59pm, and again at 12:01 am. Their team, managers, and collaborators never actually expected them at their desks. It was all to appease this mandate.

It's not surprising that Amazon has moved to 5 days a week despite so many people gaming the system and not actually caring about being in person. There's likely some algorithm driving this entire movement that doesn't take into account any of the real nuance that team dynamics requires, let alone taking into account that there are tangible benefits to remote work.

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I honestly don't think there is any algorithm. For all the bluster and commitment to being "data driven", none of the companies I've seen mandate RTO have provided any sort of data-driven reason why it needs to happen. Amazon's policy might as well be "Jassy feels it in his gut that RTO is better for the company so we are doing it".

All the communication of RTO invokes the most fanciful and vague references to "magical hallway conversations" and "increased collaboration" without a single data point to back up any of the claims.

It has been almost humorous to watch such stalwarts of "data driven decision making" turn up a giant goose egg with respect to actual evidence on such a huge, impactful, and far reaching decision.

Only champion data driven decisions when they confirm your desired outcome. Nothing new under the sun.

Amazons RTO is a hidden layoff round. They are overstaffed because they hired like crazy during the pandemic, now they need to slimmdown and will simply wait for people to quit because of the RTO and fire those that dont comply. And they dont have to pay anything because those that leave do so out of free will, and the fired people were simply breaking their contract

People keep saying this, but I don't believe Amazon is that unwilling to pay severance. They excel at making tough business decisions and paying for sunk costs. It's an incredibly risky way to run a layoff - top talent will leave at the same rate as bottom. I don't buy it.

Open office plans have data that shows it costs less than individual offices but it is sold as "fostering communication" and "team culture." The cost per office is easier to count than the lost productivity of a distracted programmer.

RTO has similar data. If we require a highly distributed workforce to be in a specific physical location x amount of time, y percentage will resign and we don't have to pay severance or announce layoffs. That's easy to calculate vs. the lost productivity of individuals or the impact of losing top performers and lowering the bar.

Data-driven management is primarily to find goldbrickers and troublemakers through statistical mumbo-jumbo performed over shoddy proxy metrics. It's not supposed to promote or encourage sensible decisions.

The irony is that these people are exactly the reason why Amazon HAD to move to 5 days a week.

Because people didn't actually embrace the hybrid model, wasted time on petty protests like this, undermined morale and the hypothetical benefits of in-person colocation.

If everyone actually tried 3 days a week, and had the benefits of in-person collaboration (instead of people coming in to the office to just sit on Zoom calls), then maybe the company could've kept doing 3 days a week instead of forcing everyone to 5.

“The proles rebelled, so Amazon dug their heels in harder” is not a great take. They’re supposed to lead, and they’ve lost their mandate.

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