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Comment by michael_nielsen | Hacker News Reader

Seems appropriate to quote an old HN comment (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3905794):

"After the first night of the 2008 SciFoo conference at Google, @gnat Torkington's twitter stream contained a gem: 'At SciFoo opening session. 300 people standing around networking. Meanwhile, Larry Page is quietly unpacking chairs at the back of the room.' (from memory, not exact)"

The CEO (or any leader)'s job is to make sure that whatever needs to be done, gets done. Sometimes, that means unpacking the chairs.

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I'll share a story an interaction with a company that I worked heavily with while we were launching (this is a startup in a fairly niche, non-technical space. A smallish company with around 200 employees):

The "CEO": This guy had a large stake in the company. It was his baby, and while the "CEO" title (which I think gets way over applied) fits him, his official title is "managing partner". While we were in the process of build->launch, he was heavily involved in literally every single department. Not in a micro-managing way, in an "this needs to be done and here, I am going to help" way.

It would absolutely not have seemed strange to me, or anybody else, to see him out on a scissor lift with a hammer drill and some cables mounting something to the wall, if that's what was needed. When we did launch, some things went...wrong.

The night before we opened, he, as well as some of his friends, not even people employed by us, spent until almost-down doing "grunt" work. Dirty, tedious work moving huge heavy things around, and walking all over the place to get them.

That night he slept here (so did I)

The months leading up until that launch, and the months following it, he was here until well after dark because a lot of the people who had been hired were "green", and had no idea how to do their job yet. We were all figuring it out as we went.

The culture here at that time was addictive (and I wish we could get that feeling back of "making it up as we go". We've got everything pretty well dialed now). People throw the cliche of "we were a family" around pretty liberally, and I'm going to throw it around too.

We were a family.

We ate together, we drank together, and the "core" group always left together, meaning that nobody left until everybody's work was done. (including the managing partner, who absolutely didn't need to be, and was the one setting the example).

This has been an absolutely amazing company to work for. The culture here was, or is amazing.

The sad bit is that a lot of the culture that I fell in love with has faded. Yes, we're growing (rapidly! Awesome!), but we've more-or-less all hit our grooves. I know what I'm doing, the "CEO" does to, and there aren't really any scissors lifts or hammer drills left.

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I guess I'll end the story with a question: how do I/we get back to that?

how do I/we get back to that?

If I am reading this correctly, you currently have around 200 employees and presumably started with less than that. If that is correct, break it up into two separate groups smaller than 150. Any time any part of the company grows beyond about 150 people, repeat. (Read "The tipping point" for longish explanation why. Short version: The typical human brain is designed for a "tribe" size of about 150.)

Richard Bransons Virgin group does this, although their groups are smaller. Around 20 people if I remember correctly.

Iirc, according to "The Tipping Point", the company that makes kevlar does exactly what I suggested. Their method: They build a building and put 150 parking spaces out front. When people start parking on the grass, time to build a new building.

Very car centered.

Funny, I had not thought of that (funny since I live without a car). Just repeating what I recalled from the book, not reccommending it as a method. :-)

It's called the Dunbar number, and it varies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbars_number

Thank you. That is why I said things like typical human brain and about 150.

As I understand it, Napoleon inspired such loyalty in spite of how he treated his people because he could greet everyone by name and ask how their wife Elaine was doing, etc. It made everyone feel he caredabout them personally. I had similar talents when I was younger but never really knew what to do with it as I was a homemaker, but I am familiar firsthand with the types of emotional responses it inspires from people.

It's why cities are stressful for the brain, I think. 99% of people we interact with are strangers, and we put up our social guard everywhere we go. Giving us a feeling of alienation, and increasing our fight/flight response.

I generally agree with you, and did upvote you, but I am currently in the largest city I have ever lived in and not really experiencing it that way. I suppose I need to think more about why that is, but I think part of it is that the gaslamp district was designed on a walkable human scale before the auto era. I am not a fan of cars and I find the modern American auto-centric lifestyle and urban design really stressful. Plus, I run into lots of people I know daily, in part because I walk everywhere. I actually feel less isolated here than in the last place I lived, though I had relatives nearby, grew up there, it is a smaller city, etc.

There is an effect, at least from my perspective, regarding size of cities. It really struck me during a vacation in Sydney. From a certain size on big, read huge, cities tend to break down to almost a cluster of "village communities". within these, you start to know each other. compared to munich for example, there were much more smaller stores and coffee shops right in the center of sydney then in some quarters of munich or any other random german city I know.

In between small and huge you get this ackward feeling anonoumity which stresses you, you get shopping malls out of town, something impossible in Manhatten for example since driving hours to do grocery shopping is just inconvinient. And all that is, I think, not natural to us humans. where this limit between big but not big enough lies, i don't know, maybe it depends on culture... but that's something I tend to see all the time i spend time real big cities. But maybe it's just me.

This is very true, if the city is built and cultivated on the proper scale.

There's a long video on Prarie Home Companion (on YouTube or Hulu), following Garrison Keillor around as he does the show, and at home in both Minnesota and Manhattan. As he's going through New York, he observes, as you've noted, that it's really a collection of villages.

I've had very similar experiences myself.

I am currently in San Diego and really really liking it. I am homeless and can't imagine affording a home here. But I love the weather, the walkability of the gaslamp district and just a whole lot of things. I have never lived in a large city before and disliked most of the ones I have been in. I have toyed with the idea of doing a kickstarter project related to the city (and county?) of San Diego.

I have looked around and asked around a smidgeon for online resources related to San Diego. I am getting the impression there isn't all that much, at least not anything really good. I wondered if people would be interested in having something better. I am still toying with the idea. At one time, I wanted to go into urban planning or something related. Urban planners tend to be career bureaucrats, many working for government. That is not my comfort zone. Before life interrupted my career plans, I was increasingly wondering what that "something related" part might be. I am wondering if I might be in the process of stumbling into it currently.

My grandfather co-founded an engineering company. One of the things he had to do was sales. His trick was that the first time he visited the company, he'd ask to get a company directory. The second time, he'd review that directory (which in those days typically had pictures), and when he walked in he'd greet everyone by name.

He was a very effective salesman.

(BTW the company still exists, http://cmtengr.com/ is their website. My grandfather was Ray Tilly.)

I was talking to a friend of mine a bit ago; I was saying that I wanted some sort of wearable computer rig to do facial recognition for me; I thought that was one of the things holding me back as a bizdev guy. I'm bad with both faces and names.

My friend told me that he could remember faces well, but that more often than not it contributed to awkwardness when he could remember the other person's name, but the other person couldn't remember his.

I have been told that, in a sales context, this actually helps. It fires off some sort of feeling that you need to make up for the social faux pas.

(I am truly awful at remembering faces and names - so have never had the opportunity to find out myself :-)

Years ago I went on a course that covered all kinds of things related to dealing with people and this issue was one of them.

The awkwardness is easily removed simply by greeting someone by their name and repeating yours without giving them a chance to 'not remember'.

"Greg! Hi! Mike. How's Sarah? Did you find your dog in the end?"

My oldest son and ex husband are both really terrible with faces. I have gotten pretty bad at faces in recent years, but the evidence is that as my health issues resolve, some of my lost abilities are returning. I feel really weirded out when people talk to me like they clearly know who I am but I don't recall having seen them before. I try to not let it show and I try to interact in manner which honors their apparent assumption that we are acquainted. I also just tell people I have a medical condition/crappy eyesight/am terrible with names and faces, etc. I ask "What was your name again?" People seem to appreciate that I am interested and don't seem to hold it against me that I am handicapped.

My ex was career military. He relied on nametags. My son has done some reading on faceblindness. Faceblind people often identify people by voice or some other trait instead of by face. Sometimes it goes largely unnoticed because they find another means to recognize most people reasonably quickly.

I dono. The times I've played along were always really awkward. It's usually easier if I say something like "who the hell are you?" (I mean, in a joking way; and with a "I'm horrible at faces" and story about how I was calling the new guy at one of my jobs "David" for 6 months before someone else pulled me aside and told me he was really "dennis" - see, our email standard was first initial lastname, and I remembered people by email aliases. I then mention my desire for some kind of wearable facial recognition rig.) I mean, I cultivate something of a coarse image, and I think I can usually pull that off in a friendly and self-deprecating kinda way.

In general, the sooner I get it out there, the better off the conversation goes. The worst is when I get their name and I still don't remember context. I mean, an ordinary wearable rig with a twiddler and an email lookup would take care of that.

I am in a different social setting than you and I seem to have a different skill set. It wasn't exactly intended as advice. I am not fond of advice.

For me, getting to be on the other side of the equation has been a growth experience. People with the kind of innate abilities I had frequently become what I view as con artists and master manipulators. I think they don't necessarily intend for it to be that way. They just don't necessarily understand what it is like to be at the disadvantage. I hope more of my innate abilities return. But I cherish the lessons learned from walking a mile in their shoes. It has made me a better person.

Peace and best of luck.

Reminds me of "Beyond Civilization" by Daniel Quinn. In the end, most of us just want to join the circus.

We want to be a part of something special, where everyone is working towards a common goal. We join the circus to be a part of something, not to get something from it.

What's the modern day version of a circus (the old-fashioned type, not the commercialized circus)?

Thank you. That's exactly it, from my PoV.

    I guess I'll end the story with a question: 
    how do I/we get back to that?

Should you tho? Sure it's a high and fun in a way, but can you really expect people to spend the night sleeping at the office on a regular basis and basically making their workplace their family?

What about people who have their own family (kids, spouse)? Would you still want to do this (I presume that also means working very long hours) in your 50s and 60s? Would you want to make everyone working there do it?

There are virtues to startup life but I'd get tired living it my entire career.

Another similar story that went around HN a year ago: http://thesash.me/wash-the-dishes-when-nobody-else-will and http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2193330

The meat of the post (very similar to this article actually):

  One day, I walked by the kitchen and saw Cary washing the 
  dishes. “Huh” I thought, “The CEO is pitching in. Cool.” 
  I figured it must have been his turn or something, and 
  sort of forgot about it.

  A week or so passed, and then it happened again. The 
  kitchen became a ginormous mess, and then one day, 
  there’s Cary, washing dishes. Then it happened again, and 
  again. Each time, he’d look up, and nod, then go back to 
  scrubbing dishes. One day, I walked by the kitchen and 
  noticed it was a huge mess. So I washed the dishes.

  Being the CEO of the company isn’t about power, 
  authority, or glamour, it’s about washing the dishes when 
  nobody else will.

  Be the CEO of the company. Take responsibility for things 
  that other people ignore. That’s the definition of 
  leadership, and if you make a habit of it, pretty soon 
  you'll be inspiring the people around you to do the same.

larry is a billionaire, his sense of things is different than ours, money is not an issue anymore for him, or at least not the same type of issue

it really piss me off, when we ask an employee who is being paid peanuts to show the same dedication to his work place as the ceo or the owner, and claim this is the ethical thing to do

Right but the post is about ceo's and their behavior. You're veering into a completely different tangent.

Not saying what your saying isn't true, but you might have misunderstood the message, nobody mentioned employees or how they should behave.

Now imagine that Larry pays this employee a billion to unpack chairs or wash dishes. Would employee take? Definitely. Would he be doing this all the time from now on? I don't know.

I get very upset when junior employees try to keep me from doing the 'dirty work' I'm preparing to do or already doing.

I'm not sure where this whole nonsense of "people who lead can't get dirty or do menial work" comes from. If I had something more important to do for sure I would have delegated, but seeing that I didn't, ask why is this particular thing important or, at most, offer help. Don't tell me I shouldn't be doing this!

Context: I lead a team of 4. And by 'dirty work' I mean plugging up servers, doing maintenance on them, physical networking stuff, cleaning up debris after an installation, etc.

Is it possible that your team wants to demonstrate some level of ownership? Maybe prove to you that they have what it takes?

I don't do things because my boss is a vp and is above the work. I do things because I fully own my job and gobble up as much responsibility as I can get.

Are you any good at it? Maybe they don't want you to do it for a reason :)

Yes, don't forget that they may be afraid of telling you you're not helping.

That's not the case, I'm sure.

That's a really cool story. He saw something needed to be done, so he did it. That's the kind of person I want to work with.

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