So in addition to the complete destruction of personal privacy and the normalization of the panopticon, it's also making you materially poorer. But hey, at least ads are more relevant, sorta, almost, sometimes!
So in addition to the complete destruction of personal privacy and the normalization of the panopticon, it's also making you materially poorer. But hey, at least ads are more relevant, sorta, almost, sometimes!
Some TV operating system manufacturers give away their OS to TV manufacturers, and in some cases they even pay TV manufacturers to use their software.
Some streaming service companies pay the TV manufacturers to have a shortcut/launch button on the physical remote.
I am not going to try to argue that advertising is good or anything, but I don't think your economic argument is accurate.
If a company didn't have to spend anything on advertising, they wouldn't use that money to improve their product or to reduce the price; the money would go towards profit.
So many people seem to think that prices are set at "expense + fixed profit margin = price" but that is not how any company sets their prices. The ONLY reason a business is going to lower prices is because they think that is the way to increase their profit. They aren't going to lower prices just because some cost goes away.
Still, even if there is no immediate price decrease for the customer, I would be much more satisfied if all the money went to the maker(s) of the product and well-investing shareholders than someone who provides no value and could have been working on something productive instead.
The commodification of screens from both the production side (i.e. newer entrants to the market from Chinese manufacturers) and from the content portal side (i.e. Roku, Google TV, Fire TV, etc) is a major strategic problem for the television brands you are probably most familiar with. The forementioned examples of content portals are coming from companies that are fundamentally based around advertising, and the companies that were traditionally about manufacturing realized that the advertising revenue opportunity was too good to give up. They are trying to grow their revenue, and profitability, and see that they won't be able to do so from their original core businesses. This is also why you're seeing all of these "FAST" (Free, Ad-supported Streaming Television) services popping up from the tv manufacturers themselves.
Vizio, for example, was a value-oriented producer of televisions and related products. In 2021, as Vizio became a public company, they disclosed that they make more than twice the profit from their advertising/service business than their device sales (https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22773073/vizio-acr-adver...). Walmart is now acquiring Vizio for that business and the opportunity to collect customer data (https://corporate.walmart.com/news/2024/02/20/walmart-agrees...).
Roku is another good focused example because they are a publicly traded company and you can analyze their income statements and business model. Their hardware devices are basically being sold at cost or at a loss so they can seed the market and create an audience (i.e. their inventory) for their high-margin advertising services business.
Google and Amazon also want a large piece of this pie. Apple is starting to show that they want advertising money too.
We are also seeing cases where the television devices themselves can be produced cheap enough to be given away to users that opt into advertising (e.g. Telly: https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/15/23721674/telly-free-tv-st...). When this dynamic is economically viable (i.e. give away the hardware, make the money via ads), you can see how big of a problem traditional television device manufacturers have.
In other words, an advertising dollar doesn't disappear: it's paid to someone.
Window breaking gangs could make a similar same claim about their activity boosting GDP might they not?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
I do remember it being about how a window maker paying people to break windows not being a productive contribution to GDP.
Just thought it was curious seeing it again.
Yes a common misconception about economics so much so it has a Wikipedia page to explain it.
... I'd rather not pay for the "service" they're providing.
Can a capitalist society operate without advertising? How are people to learn about products and services that are available? Yet today poorly targets ads waste the time of everyone involved. If ads could be made relevant without invading your privacy would you be against that?
Search. Easier said than done, thanks to SEO and business models like Google. So maybe I should say "paid search". We get what we pay for.
If you do not know a product / service exists why would you search for it?
If "search" is your answer what do you suppose advertisers are doing? Are they not searching for customers?
Advertising is an expensive search with many externalities on society. These externalities are wasteful hence the search for a better way to do it. Google / Facebook / ... I think are funded by solving this problem.
If I don’t know a product or service exists, why do I need it?
My life is fine as it is, I don’t need stupid advertisements for stuff that won’t enrich it.
Do you not purchase things / services you do not need?
> My life is fine as it is, I don’t need stupid advertisements for stuff that won’t enrich it.
How might you reply to a someone from a few thousand or few hundred or even few dozen years ago that has your attitude? Might you be tempted to advertise to them what they are missing? Would they not be interested?
Exactly, I would NOT search for a solution. No sale. Less consumption.
In most cases if you do not know a problem is a problem, then it is actually NOT a problem.[1]
Advertisers' jobs are to convince you otherwise. e.g. You need our pill. You need our gadget. You need our clothing or cosmetic. Advertising does not care about your best interest. Advertising tries to make a sale and advertising is considered successful if a sale is made even if no problem was solved.
[1] There are some exceptions. Serious medical conditions, for example. I don't think most people object to altruistic advertising campaigns to educate people about genuine health problems and their solutions. But I don't think that's what we're talking about here.
What makes "Less consumption" a good goal? What are biospheres if not cycles of consumption? When our planet becomes sterilized due to some disaster will you celebrate "Less consumption"? Obviously not. EFFICIENT consumption is a good goal so we maximize what we desire and minimize the undesirables.
> Advertising does not care about your best interest. Advertising tries to make a sale and advertising is considered successful if a sale is made even if no problem was solved.
Yes. In a capitalist economy all act in self interest. This is clearly s bad system except if you have experience living under other systems and there the direction of migration should be a clue about what people prefer.
1. If I have an interest in a field (say, electronics) and then I attend a conference or gathering that's relevant to that field (say, CES), and then you buy a booth at that conference in order to hawk your wares, that's A-OK. The crucial difference is that I willingly understand the context--I'm going to be going to a place that's all about having people sell me things--and that advertisers are not running roughshod over a space where they don't belong. Consider this "pull-based" advertising rather than the "push-based" advertising where ads get shoved in your face every second of the day everywhere you go, even when you're just trying to live your life.
2. Organic word-of-mouth referrals. In an online, AI-infested world, the "organic" part is increasingly hard to come by, but if someone that I trusts tells me that a product is good, that's great and welcome. Crucially, their reputation with me is on the line if they turn out to be wrong or financially compromised.
3. Simple indication of presence. If you have a shop, you're allowed to have a sign on the front with the name of your shop... within reason. Don't push it. Billboards should be banned.
When you "visit" Google / Facebook / YouTube / other online properties do you think you are "going to a place that's all about having people sell me things"?
In other cases such as buying a shoe or a can of beer or a fridge or a car, I just go to the website or the physical store that sells it and I compare the products and buy the most suitable one.
This way purchases would be prompted by an actual need, like when my shoes are worn out, I look to buy new ones instead of it being pushed on me through ads when I don't even need it.
Usually the existence of the ad doesn't mean that it's the best in its category. Why would it be in my interest to be following ads instead of my own research?
Also this gotcha is decades out of date. Today's ads are rarely about the features or suitability of the actual product. Instead they sell a vibe, a lifestyle feeling, they create positive emotional associations in ways orthogonal to the product's attributes. Think Coca Cola with celebrities etc. After all, how would I otherwise know I need a can of coke if the trendy singer didn't tell me about it, right?
Consider that you should never accept cold-call sales or offers under typical circumstances; I make notes on the ads I see in order to blacklist them, essentially.
The good deals are found by my seeking them out, doing research, asking questions. Knowing a brand reputation apart from marketing. Discerning things like corporate culture, attitude, politics, intended market or audience.
So many products and services are made on the basis of shoveling crap to make a profit, or supporting some cause or crusade, and the more I can pierce the veil, the better I feel about where my money's going.
Remember Yellow Pages?
And if that is not good enough, perhaps you can opt in to an advertising service that shows you ads when you want to see them (as opposed to when they want to show them to you).