Leak claims RTX 5090 has 600W TGP, RTX 5080 hits 400W
tomshardware.com
tomshardware.com
Considered getting a new GPU earlier this year but then realized 5xxx was "around the corner", but now it seems they're pushed back to next year. And with AI being what it is, I'm guessing prices won't drop significantly.
Would be nice if AMD could get their GPU act together so it was a more viable alternative, NVIDIA could do with some competition.
edit: just recalled I had a dual-chip GPU back in the day, the ATI 4870X2[2]. Though that was more like two GPUs glued to one PCB, so effectively "single card SLI".
Hopefully the 5090 would be a better experience, as my 4870X2 never quite lived up to what it could theoretically do.
[1]: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/llm-inference-con...
[2]: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-hd-4870-x2.c236
I do think games have a lot more vary needs than most AI - which primarily need to crunch matrixes - so I'm a little sympathetic to a jump to many-chip failing. You also burn power on chip to chip interconnect, try as we might to ever optimize this down.
> Which is the worst timing because desktop GPU sales are increasingly used for AI.
Well, the good news is RDNA4 is the last consumer chips. Good news because they are merging RDNA with CDNA (compute/ai) to make a new UDNA (unified), which all next next gen chips will be.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-announce...
Gamers don't need high end video cards, they want high end video cards. In general, the high marginal price for low marginal value of high end video cards prevents most gamers from acting on their desires.
But this generation of video cards provides a couple of other justifications for the purchase:
- it will allow them to run uncensored ML stacks locally - it will allow the buyers to train themselves on the hottest new career path.
A large number of people who use these excuses to justify the purchases to themselves or their loved ones will only use it for gaming, but those excuses will fuel a lot of sales.
This seems like the wrong generation for AMD to skip the halo tier of gaming cards.
It does not. They will/are reselling exactly the same graphics cards that have been sold for the last ten years; the same computing capacity (and a modest increase for their top model), with very limited RAM, at very high prices.
They simply changed the silicon manufacturing process to smaller nodes without achieving a meaningful reduction in power consumption with respect to the previous generation, they still being high-consuming energy wasters heat generators.
The same justifications sold lots of 20X0 and 30X0 generation cards too.
A RTX 5060 with 4352 Su, I bet will be a RTX 4060 Ti AD107 with 4352 Su, the same as a RTX 2080 Ti TU102 with 4352 Su, all ones with Mem-Bus 128 bit.
Just smaller manufacturing nodes with name change.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html
RTX 4070 Ti is a RTX 3090 Ti
RTX 4070 is a RTX 3080
RTX 4060 Ti is a RTX 2080 Ti and RTX 3070
RTX 4060 is a RTX 2080 and RTX 3060 Ti
RTX 4050 is a GTX 1080 Ti , RTX 2070 SUPER, RTX 3060
It is not difficult to see the pattern, just look at the GPU specifications, it is not a coincidence, and it is quite predictable. The manufacturer is just playing with disabling cores.
It is not new, Nvidia has always done this. Initially, longer than a decade ago, limiting the GPU through drivers, but someone found a way to hack it, so the manufacturer started limiting the GPU by hardware at the factory. The same thing happened when people started putting vRAM in themselves and the manufacturer restricted it again on following models.
> they are just reselling the same computing capacity as they have been for the last ten years
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say here, but as far as I can tell a 4090 offers quite a bit more "computing capacity" than a Titan RTX, and that's just over five years ago.
> RTX 4060 is a RTX 2080
Probably, but I just put one in a small desktop for $280, not the $700 a 2080 cost new. So, yeah they're selling the same stuff, it just costs less.
What I'm trying to say is that they're deceiving customers year after year about costs and computing capacity.
It was supporting my comment six messages above:
>>> But this generation of video cards provides a couple of other justifications for the purchase - it will allow them to run uncensored ML stacks locally
>> It does not. They will/are reselling exactly the same graphics cards that have been sold for the last ten years; the same computing capacity (and a modest increase for their top model), with very limited RAM, at very high prices.
> a modest increase for their top model ... limited RAM, at very high prices
Yes, I see your point, and agree.
There are far too many products in the range, and the consumer cards seem to be intentionally hampered to protect their professional / studio card business. eg. huge unnecessary 3-slot cooling arrangement on 3090/4090.
I wonder how DLSS and frame gen affects power usage. Presumably they save power vs drawing real frames, but I haven't tested it...?
The Rosetta games (which is most of them) suck though, and Crossover/Whisky is such a hit or miss experience.
On the other hand, with GFN I can turn everything up to ultra and it looks great, and there's no fan or noise at all and barely sips the battery.
My work machine is a M2 Max and I have a studio display. Every day I fight the temptation to install Steam and load up No Man's Sky on it...
I don't think the M2 can comfortably drive that resolution at 60 fps though :/ As much as I love Apple Silicon, the GPU is a lot weaker than a RTX card. Especially since it lacks any of the AI features.
GFN offers day passes and works with your Steam library if you want to give it a shot. You don't have to install anything, just sign up for a day and you can play No Man's Sky in a browser window at max settings. (But I think you might need the GFN app to play at full native resolution or with proper HDR, not sure).
I have 50 and 150 ft fiber optic DisplayPort cables. Can do 8k60, or 4k240. Can be had for like $70, work fine.
The hard part is input? I'm no stranger to USB extension cables. But I don't love them. They're so bulky, and they usually need 5v in every 50ft, and since USB hierarchy tops out at 7 deep and each cable is actually 2 hubs, you can only really chain two 50 ft cables together (and a 25 ft shorter active extension too, then hub and device.. gee since the cables sre hubs would sure be nice if someone made an active USB extension cable that exposed all 4 ports at the end!). Here's a well reviewed example for $42, https://www.amazon.com/Extension-Extender-Repeater-Boosters-...
There are some usb4 over fiber optic solutions, but often more than $150 for 100 ft, which is kind of a drag. Spent money on stupider things, maybe will do it.
I used to build my own PCs, but GFN is a much nicer (and significantly cheaper!) experience overall. I can play everything on ultra, at 4k (with DLSS) for $20/mo and don't need to worry about keeping up with new GPUs or local heat, noise, and system maintenance. For an aged, busy gamer, it's really really nice.
With 120fps and Reflex on a fast connection, the lag is minimal and lower than what you might find on many consoles with TV lag. Not as crystal smooth as a true high end PC with a fast mouse and 240 Hz monitor, but really not as bad as you'd fear.
Aside from shooters, I play 95% of my games on GFN (along with a handful of unsupported ones using Crossover or Parallels, which both suck compared to GFN). Mostly ARPGs these days (PoE, D4, Last Epoch), some factory games and city builders (Cities Skylines, Frostpunk), and a handful of light sims (Snowrunner).
It's so nice. I could never afford a 4080 or any of their GPUs anymore, but honestly I wouldn't bother even if I could. Not having to manage my own thermals and noise is amazing, as is being able to play on a MacBook, my handheld, my phone, and my TV.
As for bandwidth inconsistencies, what do you mean? In the US northwest and in Chicago at least, I've had the high tier for years and it's been fantastic. Sure it's not your ISP or router? FWIW I've found hardwired ethernet to work a lot better than WIFI.
Doing best at 100-150W GPU at top seems most responsible move to me. With reasonable cost for the GPU to boot.
From a gaming perspective, technicality is not anything like the ending days of Voodoo cards, but somehow it reminds me of the same feeling.
PC gaming was always a niche market relative to the consoles, and it will probably remain so. But also, it's never looked better, had such a great selection (especially indie games), or been this affordable (between Gamepass, GeForce Now, and various publisher subs). For like $30/mo you can play many of the latest amazing games on max graphics without owning a GPU at all.
I hope, like servers, more and more of this moves to the cloud. It doesn't make sense to run much of this workload locally when they can be more efficiently managed and shared in data centers anyway, with better power and cooling management than most home PCs could have.
The SLI Nvidia used had nothing to do with the tech from 3df besides the initials and the general idea of the concept, especially since the way the Nvidia GPUs worked at the time Nvidia dropped SLI was totally different than the way 3dfx's 3d accelerators worked.
The difference is not that huge though. Supposedly 43:57 by revenue:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-pc-vs-console-g...
According to other stats:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/292460/video-game-consum....
PC is even bigger.
And this is by revenue, I would guess that on average PC games might be significantly cheaper? Meaning that more people actually play them.
Or it might just be skewed by some highly addictive/competitive in Asia etc. (where IIRC console gaming was never that big outside of Japan).
https://futurism.com/doom-running-on-neural-network
For example LLMs for NPC dialogs
I've been thinking about this for a while; like how feasible it might be.What's cool about this is that (unlike so much generative AI) is that a game based around this would not be cutting writers out of the loop.
I'm imagining a game where the writer(s) produce backstories for the characters, and all sorts of dialogue they might possibly say. And then the LLM is sort of remixing that stuff in real time to produce novel dialogue and behaviors.
Done well, I think it could be pretty seamless and compelling...
[0] https://www.razer.com/mena-en/gaming-laptops/razer-core-x
Also Beelink has MiniPCs with external PCIe x8 slots, it's a clever trick: https://liliputing.com/beelink-gti14-ultra-is-an-intel-meteo...
But if you plug two 5090s and some next gen Intel CPU in a very inefficient PSU, you have a chance...
Their highest efficiency is at 80-90% utilization, but the efficiency drops off when underutilized.
Aside from that, 1000W is very theoretical. You have some maximum on each rail. If you have 500W on the 12V rail max, and need 600W, it doesn't matter you have another 500W on the other rails. You're SOL.
Another reason is start-up surge. It's less of an issue without mechanical disks, but charging all those capacitors on power-on can really lead to badness.
And droop and ripple are also lower if you're not near the limit. Computers have things like audio cards, WiFi, and other analog parts which perform better with cheap power.
I always overspec PSUs.
I may upgrade preemptively to beat the PSU rush when their next cards release.
Which has been a huge factor in data center servers from what i know for a long time. Somehow that has been forgotten
The price divide between “desktop” and “datacenter” GPUs is artificial and no doubt there is a collusion of some kind.
That's twice the price of a 4090. You can't tell me the extra RAM costs that much.
Although they retail for more than $4k.
The previous generation RTX A6000 is probably what they're referring to above.
You might like this article, which looks at the arithmetic intensity of LLM processing: https://www.baseten.co/blog/llm-transformer-inference-guide/