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Comment by vitus | Hacker News Reader

It depends how much walking / hiking / running / whatever else you do.

A typical pair of running shoes lasts somewhere around 300-500 miles. (You could probably stretch a pair further than that, but you run much higher risk of injury once the cushioning wears down.)

If you put in a modest 5 miles a day and have two pairs in rotation, then expect to replace both pairs every 6 months (if not more often). It is not uncommon for semi-serious runners to spend $100+ on each pair of shoes. From that perspective, $500/year doesn't seem that outrageous.

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Yeah, I’ll use regular sneakers until the soles fall off, but I’ve realized that with running shoes you can either take the pain in your wallet or in your feet. A hundred bucks every few months is better than not being able to move.

"Feet" doesn't cover it. "Body" is more appropriate.

Running with poor quality shoes unduly stresses your knees, hips, and lower back. Over time, this is likely to develop chronic pain, or bursitis, or other problems that can lead to long-term mobility issues.

If you're going to run regularly, you should find a way to either afford the propert shoes in good repair, or learn to run barefoot

> learn to run barefoot

Finally someone with the right idea!

I did this when I lived within 20 minutes of a long stretch of sandy beach. Would also work in an area with grass or soft soil. But now that my runs are all either poorly-maintained pavement or rocky, gravely trails, barefoot is simply not feasible.

Indeed. “Feet” was just a more pithy way of putting it. I started buying my favorite shoes no matter the sale price when my lower-quality shoes started affecting my knees, shins, and back.

I'm not convinced you need cushioning.

I spend zero on running shoes, and I've run two marathons like this.

I'm convinced you don't need it, but my shin splints disagree, and I'm happy to buy new shoes after 300-500 miles.

Interesting you mention shin splits - those (and ITBS) were my crippling complaint for 15 years, before I tried barefooting, basically in desperation.

Can you recommend any good resource on how to start seriously with barefoot running or walking?

Anatomy for Runners by Dicharry

I could be biased, but I like the book Run Barefoot Run Healthy. Also Barefoot Ken Bob's book and website.

There isn't much to learn - it's mainly a question of unlearning bad habits picked up through a lifetime of wearing unnatural built-up shoes, plus allowing the feet to slowly strengthen. If an able-bodied person spent a lifetime using crutches, the adaption to walking freely would take some time.

For inspiration, google: barefoot romero caltech saxton

There isn't much to learn if you have proper (or at least bilaterally symmetric) range of motion in your muscles and joints. If, instead, you have long-term injuries, tissue damage, etc., that have led to patterns of movement that are causing degeneration and inefficient patterns of movement, then you basically need to learn how to fix those problems, then relearn to walk. There are complex sequences of neuromuscular cues that healthy people possess but don't think about consciously, just like the ability to recognize objects. I needed to learn a LOT about walking and running in every sense of the word, in addition to slowly gaining foot strength. It would not have happened if I had taken a passive approach. It was more like programming a computer to recognize objects from scratch in R or C (whichever you believe to be the pirate's favorite programming language...).

Honestly, it's not hard. Just buy a pair of wider toe box shoes, nothing too extreme or minimalist, and start wearing them for normal everyday tasks like going to the grocery store, then build from there. I recommend Lems (I like the Primal Zen) or Altras (I like the Lone Peak style).

After a little while you'll have more foot strength and can start working out in them and/or transition to wearing barefoot shoes 100% of the time. It takes some time to build the foot strength so I wouldn't go too minimalist to start.

Honestly, I don't remember it being a problem when I was younger, but after taking a few years off and getting back to it, it's been an issue.

I wasn't having much luck finding the cause until a coworker recommended new shoes. Since then I haven't had a problem. I know it doesn't make sense, people ran barefoot for millenium, but for me it's been worth it.

Counterpoint: I've run 7 marathons in 7 consecutive days, whilst wearing some low-profile altras, and after the mid-way, I was switching to more cushier ones.

I'm not disputing that cushioning "feels" comfortable. So does Vicodin.

But if cushioned shoes work well for you, I wouldn't expect you to change anything. Invest in HOKA.

My audience is all the runners who have problems, and keep turning up the dial on cushioning, orthotics, etc. ... before finally giving up on running by their forties. Or they run on NSAIDs and trash their kidneys.

I understand your fascination with barefoot training, but it is a bit extremist. I too have tried VFFs and other barefoot shoes (I competed in a deadlift competition once, wearing merrell minumus), and do a lot of gym stuff without shoes, and there are pros and cons to the approach.

If there's one thing barefoot running does emphasis though, is improvements in foot strike. If you can carry that over to more cushioned shoes I believe that to be a win-win, versus a dogmatic view of barefoot or nothing.

That's rather patronizing.

I'm not "fascinated" with running barefoot - I do run barefoot when I otherwise would not be running, due to chronic injuries.

And I'm still running when many of my peers no longer run - they complain about their knees or whatever.

I wear boat shoes daily, they're essentially a flat piece of rubber. Gives me the sensation of being "half barefoot" (things don't hurt but I feel every little piece of gravel and crevasse I walk on.

I'm also 78kg so I don't know if anything I wear or don't wear on my feet really matters, but it feels good and they last for ages since it's just suede/leather stitched down into rubber.

In regular training shoes I can barely run a mile without getting some pretty bad pains in the side of my knee. With good cushioned running shoes I can easily do 10-12 miles pain free.

I'm assuming it's a form thing, and that the running shoes just somehow naturally give me a better form, so I could maybe fix by learning how to run in normal non-running shoes, but I'm lazy and would rather just pay a few hundred every few months.

If it is a form thing, it might be that the running shoes naturally encourage a poor form (a form that only works with them, vs a presumably more 'natural' form of running closer to barefoot).

Doesn't matter. The main thing is you are out and running. And if that "costs" a few hundred every few months, and if you can afford it, why not?

Optimize for joy.

Do you use a zero drop shoe, barefoot style shoe, or run truly barefoot? I have noticed that I have been cranking up the cushioning as I have increased my mileage, but I also have found that my favorite sandals are zero drop Bedrocks.

Another vote for Bedrocks, I had put maybe 1000 walking/hiking miles on mine before I had to glue the soles back together last week. They're the only shoes I've bought retail in the last decade, the others are all thrift store purchases. I suspect that I would want some cushioning if I were a distance runner.

I run without anything on my feet.

I tried everything else before arriving at this, and it's worked for 10+ years and two marathons.

Running form: think unicycle, not pogo stick.

I thought this, but even with efforts into my running technique I wasn't able to get rid of my knee pain until I tried Hokas. I've done all the "normie" stuff a casual would come across on youtube, do you have other tips on what I might be doing wrong or could do to get off the "cushion crutch"?

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