Libraries will only exist as long as we borrow from them. It's your civic duty | Hacker News Reader

Libraries will only exist as long as we borrow from them. It's your civic duty

theguardian.com

41 pointsrntn12 comments

In the US, one can use Libby [1] (and likely other tools) to read books online. I guess it's the same elsewhere in the world. I don't think it will be the end of the world if public libraries put more and more of their books online, and use their physical spaces for other civic functions.

[1] https://libbyapp.com/

One very unfortunate thing about online book lending is that it requires a license from the copyright holder. With physical books you can lend them out freely and without any restrictions as no copies are being created due to lending. But every time one lends a online book a copy is necessarily created due to how computers work (bytes are not physically moved over a network, they are copied) and so copyright law applies. A valid license to make copies must be held at the time the copy is created and so copyright holders can use this to extract perpetual rents or even restrict access to works for various reasons [0].

[0] https://bookriot.com/macmillans-new-library-ebook-lending-mo...

You know, I got into Libby and OverDrive and the other apps that libraries love nowadays. And the experience is totally different. I mean, it's fine because you've got a taxpayer-supported streaming service, and you can pick up audiobooks without the cassettes and rewinding and melting on your dashboard.

But the eBook experience in a mobile app is markedly different than the experience of dropping into the library, chatting with the refdesk matron, paging through the cardfile/online catalog, going to the stacks, browsing the stacks, finding 3 more titles nearby that you love, pulling books from the stacks and taking them home with you, or at least to a study carrel to flip through and see whether you love it or not, then check them out.

It's like online shopping vs. going to a store. Sometimes it's better, sometimes you'd rather have the meatspace experiences.

My library has a café, print services, a 'seed library', culture passes for museums, and all sorts of really cool atmosphere that I'll never get if I'm lying in bed staring at my phone, but I can binge-read all the Libby content I ever wanted, without riding the stinky free bus, whoopee!

It’s my civic duty to expose my daughter to hostile vagrants and vulgar uncontrolled boys harassing her in front of bewildered and powerless staff?

I can’t imagine why these places are closing!

I don't have a daughter yet, so can't really comment on that perspective. But I've had a great experience with the SF public libraries. I visit the main one near Civic Center pretty often just to use the printer, and honestly I just love being around stacks of books. I haven't been since the pandemic, but the one in Chinatown was always packed with kids studying together, and it was clean.

I grew up going to libraries in the suburbs of Chicago and Philadelphia. Those are some of my best memories. I wouldn't have developed the computer skills or built the career I have today if I hadn't seen other kids, a little older than me, using them. Just being able to spend hours in a quiet, safe space where people are learning for fun— I think it changed my life.

Don’t bring your daughter to bars that call themselves libraries? Not sure what libraries your town has but that’s not what I’ve seen from libraries.

A small city library in western Canada.

There is nothing that I as a visitor can do (without being arrested).

There is nothing the employees can do, because the vagrant can beat them, and the young thug can report them - and the judge will rule in favor of the assailants.

Your portrayal of libraries is inaccurate and overly negative. Library staff can ask people to leave, and if they refuse, staff can call the police and ban people like this from returning once they're removed. I grew up in libraries in suburban areas full of vagrants and junkies, and the few times they caused issues, they did what I described.

How do you speak so confidently for another’s experience? I go the library sometime, but I wouldn’t take my hypothetical daughter to my local library, or at least leave her unattended, because it truly is a daytime shelter with powerless staff.

It is tragic but quite believable that your local library is a hostile environment. Municipal libraries can vary widely in atmosphere and clientele.

Personally I've spent loads of time hanging out in libraries from my infancy. My mother volunteered in them until I graduated high school. When I was forced to live on the streets, I found libraries to be a peaceful daytime refuge with amenities available; as long as I was respectful and never overstepped etiquette rules, I was often permitted to doze off.

I was blessed to be near a major university whose library facilities were explicitly a public service, not limited to students. The atmosphere in there was a cut above, calm and sophisticated. I never caused trouble and I never invited it, but I was occasionally locked-in after closing time!

My own city's library actually exists on park land, and it's patrolled by legitimate uniformed Park Rangers! Indeed there has been a surge of homeless and street people hanging out, but the library responded by co-locating social services, including the Section 8 housing office, in an excellent show of outreach.

The main urban library has been a much bigger zoo and practically demilitarized. There is definitely also gang activity. The homeless hangout has been curtailed a bit; unfortunately the café there closed permanently. I personally didn't feel safe, and the restroom users were frequently patrolled to keep them honest.

A real shame for you there in Canada. If you have the means to access a university library, perhaps it's more hospitable. Otherwise, appeal to your municipal leadership and get civically involved. No tax-paying family should be intimidated out of their rightful public services.

My mother ran a local small-town library for years.

It is indeed a tragic and unnecessary waste of a wonderful resource.

At least in US cities, a lot of libraries double as de facto homeless shelters during the day. And while the majority of those folks just want somewhere with air conditioning to charge their phone, there are enough exceptions to make the environment unpleasant.

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