Coffee Stats – Maximize Caffeine Intake and Get to Bed at Night
github.com
github.com
Wait for a sale at Nebula.org. Get your whole genome sequenced. ~$200. Having your whole genome sequenced could have added benefits down the road.
Download the .BAM file. It will be several gigabytes.
Use WSG Extract to generate the 23andMe raw data files.
https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/convert-whole-genome-file/
Connect that data file to Genetic Life Hacks. Take a look at the article on CYP1A2. This will show you whether you're a slow metabolizer or not.
https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/liver-detox-genes-cyp1a2/
The linked data file at GLF never uploads to the server. All analysis is local, client side.
They support anonymous sequencing.
https://nebula.org/anonymous-seq/
Genetic Life Hacks provides the analysis on a number of health and disease related topics. Their analysis is simply allele matching for any given topic (string comparisons). It's all done within the browser.
https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/faqs-about-genetics/#:~:tex...
> https://nebula.org/anonymous-seq/
The button to purchase says "coming soon" for me.
https://you.23andme.com/reports/wellness2.caffeine_consumpti...
Look at the variants to see if you have rs762551--that means you're a rapid metabolizer.
Will Nebula give me an intelligible whole-genome data file if I happen to be a Golden Retriever?
Luckily I had previously completed 23andMe, so I could cross reference that data with that generated by Nebula/WSG Extract.
My caffeine metabolism did match up.
I know from my clinical history that I have mutations in the UGT1A1 gene that cause me to metabolize bilirubin differently. That is a relatively common mutation that occurs in roughly 2-3 percent of people. Unless I am lucky enough to have a random result that coincides with this, I could be fairly certain that this data is somewhat reliable. The problem thought, I don't know the degree of reliability.
Measure before consumption. Take three different readings.
Measure at one hour intervals after caffeine consumption.
Fast metabolizers BP should return to baseline within a couple of hours.
Mine would remain elevated for 10-12 hours.
Oddly, I don't think my blood pressure changes much at all. Will try this test again, though.
I usually have to go through a withdrawal headache first.
Does anyone track these sales and send notifications? How exactly would someone wait for a sale?
[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=fal...
can i ask how you went about arriving at this workflow?
How about sleeping through the night? A different function with different math.
My model is caffeine is well-known for having a half-life, from three to six hours depending. That means a geometric fall in effective caffeine in your system after you go to sleep (you don't continue ingesting caffeine in your sleep do you? Sleep-brewing?)
What is the function for 'tired enough'? That is, how does 'sleepiness' decline over the sleep period? Because, when the functions cross (sleepiness drops below the caffeine line) then Awake! That's often about 3AM for me.
If the sleepiness function is a different time-constant, or is more nearly linear (as I suspect, as long as you get enough cobbled-together hours of sleep you are functional which sounds like a simple unweighted sum) then inevitably sleepiness will fall faster (cross the caffeine-left-in-system curve).
At that point you can get up, knock around doing whatever, getting sleepier again. Once caffeine drops below your remaining sleepiness you can get a few more winks.
And wake up shortly after, another hour or half-hour, whatever. Repeat the rest of the night in ever-shorter cycles as your curves both approach the x-axis.
Anyway it describes my sleep behavior nearly perfectly.
I'm 57 now, I started noticing poor sleep related to late night coffee in my mid 30s. I do got fairly hard earlier in the day though, I've usually had 4 double espressos (somewhere between 17-21g of beans) by mid morning, and usually another one or two before my current self imposed 2:30pm cut off.
Then something changed, and now I am sensitive to it like a normal person. It does wake me up after a sip or two I can feel it, and I can easily have 'too much' if I have 2-3 cups in too short of a timespan, so I've had to learn to slow down.
Having said all of this, my personal 'last call' is 6pm, with the idea that I will be able to sleep at 12-1am. But if I drink coffee after 6pm I might be delaying that bedtime a little.
It will be interesting to learn more about the effects of how much, and how long. Should I be tapering off hours before 'last call'? What is the best 'last call' time in the day and should it be earlier? I'll have to track some of this and figure this out!
Update: did a quick search, Reddit says it could be overtraining or dehydration.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-...
I'm envious of your 100 grams of beans a day consumption - if I have more than about 10g / one single espresso I'm a wreck for the entire day! The area-under-curve for slow metabolizers is 9 times larger - 3x the duration, 3x the concentration.
One thing I am fairly sure about, the amount of caffeine makes a difference to my sleep quality. If I have a single cup of coffee in the morning, no more, then my sleep quality seems not to be impacted. If I have several cups of coffee, only in the morning, I feel great for the morning, very stimulated, but my sleep is impacted. I wake up with a buzzing several times a night and have never been able to understand what is causing the buzzing.
Most likely it's the leftover caffeine still in your system that's beyond your personal threshold for quality sleep.
I have the same issue. If I drink two double espressos very early in the morning and then no more after that for the rest of the day, I have no problem falling asleep at night but I keep waking up several times during the night with a buzz, while my gf can drink 3 coffees per day and an espresso after dinner and still sleep.
The only way to get rid of this is reduce my caffeine intake to absolute zero, which is hard when you get the smell and taste of fresh single origin beans. I guess some people are just that much more sensitive to it than others, genetics be dammed. I wish there was a cheap way to measure the caffeine content in the coffees I make so I can precisely determine my personal threshold.
Yes, that's me. I can fall asleep, but I wake up a lot.
If you ask anyone who works in genetics, though, they'll advise you never to do it. It can be bad news, but there's virtually no good news there.
And I take exception to your “no good news”.
I discovered a gene polymorphism that led to the discovery the reason for my immune deficiency and mood disorder.
I found it gave me agency as well since I know that these genes are all risk genes and not fully determinant genes.
I would regard that as one of the exceptions in the "virtually no" caveat.
You may enjoy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9541543/ which explains more than I can
"CYP1A2 Gene: Fast or Slow Caffeine Metabolizer?"
https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/liver-detox-genes-cyp1a2/
This is one of those subjects where people argue past each "I can drink a cup of coffee and sleep like a baby!" vs "One cup of coffee in the morning and my sleep quality is impacted". And neither understands how the other can have a vastly different personal experience.
This extends to any online discussion regarding weight loss/gain, politics, wars, etc.
I am an ultra-fast metabolizer on CYP1A2 based on genetic tests and yet I can still easily get negative side effects from caffeine. This is not an on/off thing, most of these metabolizers are rated on scale of 4 or 5 levels IIRC. I have been told the understanding of some of these metabolizer tests is not that great. They can test for it but they don't really understand how it changes things that well. The bigger thing with these tests is they point towards people of different genetic backgrounds needing different drugs or different doses of some drugs when it comes to certain treatments and that typical drug guidelines are heavily biased towards male patients with typical Northern European genetic characteristics. If you're an ultra-fast caffeine metabolizer there are apparently some drugs that don't work correctly on you.
I typically try to limit myself to only 2 caffeine drinks a day.
It's possible the tests can be wrong I guess. It's also possible I still metabolize it faster than usual but I have some other thing going on that makes me get jittery or anxious from caffeine easily. I suspect what happens is I just get a rush of the effects and then they wear off faster than usual but with a larger effect.
File me under "A cup of coffee feels like a small dose of MDMA"
2) We genuinely lack fidelity on so much subjects that we confidently pontificate about. I've read several reports that coffee is a "net positive". Imagine niavely following that advice your entire life only to realize you're a slow metabolizer and you've been increasing your risk by consuming?
There probably so many aspects to our lives that have genetic components that no one knows about or acknowledges. Even to the point where people will shame others.
"I don't understand, I can drink a whole pot of coffee before bed and sleep like a baby. You'll be fine."
"I don't understand, why can't you just eat less and exercise more and then maybe you wouldn't be a fatty?"
They have no clue.
I wanted to be a coffee drinker for YEARS, but it made me really high, and I felt super tired later in the day. I don't know why I didn't connect the dots until I searched my genome, but once you know whether you are a fast or slow metabolizer you can play all sorts of games. I can now drink coffee before dinner, and the crash hits right at bedtime.
I can't have coffee multiple days in a row, else I'll experience panic attacks (and in that moment i think I'm going to die, nearly reaching for a phone to call 911). And can't partake in coffee ~95% of the time (friends don't have decaf, a ton of nicer coffee shops don't either, and often decaf is neglected so i'm drinking black water). I still love the taste of coffee, so i've kinda been robbed of that unless i'm at home and can make it myself.
Not affiliated, I just use it
Also, Smokers metabolise caffeine faster. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/657717/
A clear and curious correlation is this: The same people that can drink coffee late can and do take naps during the day too. That is: if they lie down in the middle of the afternoon, they could sleep for a little while. That's completely foreign to me, I have never in my soon 50 year life been able to take a daytime nap (at least not since I was 5). It's curious that it seems like a related capability, in my small sample.
The advice going around to try and delay coffee for the first 90 minutes after waking seems to make a difference for me too, any unprocessed adenosine can be handled by my brain, and then caffeine is ready.
One explanation: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/maximizing-your-morning-coffe...
Coffee actually works on me now I'm on stimulant medication haha
First day I was put on (low dose) stimulant meds I slept for 16 hours haha
Also, coffee power naps are totally a thing, I get a real boost if I drink a coffee and immediately lie down to sleep, then get woken up 25-30 mins later when the caffeine is doing it's thing. Definitely end up feeling better and able to concentrate deeper into the afternoon when I do that round lunchtime, compared to taking a nap without first having coffee.
It's worth noting, from a youngish age (15) I spent about 10 years working as a Baker, sleeping all sorts of strange hours... so I developed by nessacity the ability to put my head down and sleep no matter whats going on. Caffeine has never hindered that in me.
Coffee powernaps sounds wonderfull and totally logical. I might have to experiment with that concept!
l-theanine is available in pills & powder, which can be consumed with coffee.
Caffeine will influence your sleep schedule by influencing your cicardian clock via its effect on the underlying signaling.
That effect stacks with that of bright light etc, so half-life is not enough.
Rule of thump: 2 espressos 3h before normal bedtime will delay your sleep by ca. 40 minutes even without bright light.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4657156/#:~:tex....
[1]https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02255859
When I drink caffeine I get mild hallucinations and my blood pressure skyrockets. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8421806/
Someone should do a test.
More broadly we should be researching products to increase caffeine metabolism. It would have a huge market.
What did "fix" it was bringing it up to my doctor at my yearly checkup -- I explained that my mystery joint pains from a few years ago were almost certainly physical symptoms of caffeine withdrawal. This led to "why in the world were you consuming that much?!" questions and an eventual diagnosis of adult ADHD (likely lifelong and never diagnosed). 10 mg of generic ritalin twice a day and not only is the no-caffeine fatigue gone, but I basically don't tolerate caffeine anymore and have zero desire to consume it. Fortunately the local coffee roaster has a decaf :P I love coffee with or without the caffeine.
I’m sure you’ve done the homework but if anybody is reading who hasn’t… if generic short acting ritalin works, great! You know you respond to stimulant adhd meds. Now go find a better long acting one… focalin xr, adderal XR, vyvanse, etc…
The third day quitting was rough. Other than that it was pretty easy. Now my biggest complaint is finding decaf when I’m out.
I've been drinking decaf for a long time (now exclusively so), and this is a real issue sadly. Even when you go to a regular coffeeshop that has it, it's often been roasted and ground aaaaages ago (because of low demand) and then very loosely preserved, which results in drinks that taste bad and are potentially unsafe.
You might also have many other reasons to limit caffeine besides being able to sleep at night - heart issues or migraines for example. An app can't take these sorts of things into account.
Caffeine pretty much doesn't effect me, so I will have a cup of coffee and go right to bed if I want to. I also can be a regular consumer for weeks-to-months and stop suddenly and have none of the terrible withdrawal symptoms people always talk about.
> The mean half-life of caffeine in plasma of healthy individuals is about 5 hours. However, caffeine's elimination half-life may range between 1.5 and 9.5 hours, while the total plasma clearance rate for caffeine is estimated to be 0.078 L/h/kg (Brachtel and Richter, 1992; Busto et al., 1989). This wide range in the plasma mean half-life of caffeine is due to both innate individual variation, and a variety of physiological and environmental characteristics that influence caffeine metabolism (e.g., pregnancy, obesity, use of oral contraceptives, smoking, altitude).
On the one end of the scale, it'd be nigh-undetectable within a few hours, and on the other end, significantly present for 24 hours+. I suspect estimating this number is also fairly difficult. I mean, I have some idea of the _outcome_ of what happens if I drink coffee at say 6PM, but I have little way of reversing this into a half-life number.
Assumptions
The script works on some generalized assumptions that would be difficult to take into account.Does it get much better with experience?
[1]: Or cold if you fancy – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terer%C3%A9
By having coffee in the morning and then in the afternoon, you build a "high" of caffeine that forces most of your "alert systems" to shut down. Once the peak wears off though, your body starts remembering to alert you to tiredness, which by then is often multiplied by the fact that by ignoring tiredness you've pushed your system hard when it was already tired. Hence you might feel like crashing.
On top of that, caffeine de-hydrates, so if you've not had enough water, your body will start to crawl.
On top of that, a lot (most?) people will have sugar with their coffee, and often quite a lot of it. Sugar can cause similar "crashes", particularly in the obese (like me), and obviously this combines with the abovementioned items.
I have heard this too, but it doesn't feel like this to me, it feels like a stimulant getting me to a state above and beyond the one I would be in without the caffeine. There are also a lot of references to caffeine as a stimulant. So what is really going on?
My understanding (I don't have any experience in any bioscience, just an avid coffee consumer) is caffeine works because it blocks receptors of adenosine which has a depressive effect and is a signaler that makes you tired. While the caffeine is blocking these receptors, the adenosine is still building up. So once the caffeine starts to wear off all of the adenosine comes rushing in to those receptors and you start to crash. Drinking more caffeine after you have started to feel tired now takes longer for the caffeine molecules to start to muscle in and start filling those receptors again. If you can start to clear out the tiredness receptors ahead of the caffeine hitting them it will make the caffeine more effective. This has led some people to start taking a "coffee nap" where you drink you afternoon coffee, immediately take a short nap to help the caffeine be even more effective when you wake up.
The "Coffee Nap" is where your drink a cup of coffee (quickly, I guess), then lay down for 10-20 minutes to rest, and by the time you get up the caffeine will begin to kick in. I find that process to be a bit more stress-inducing.
this could be a basis for computation:
How Much Caffeine in Coffee Cup? Effects of Processing Operations, Extraction Methods and Variables
Carla Severini, Antonio Derossi, Ilde Ricci, Anna Giuseppina Fiore and Rossella Caporizzi
Reviewed: 05 April 2017 Published: 21 June 2017
DOI: 10.5772/intechopen.69002
open access:
- Let me save coffees I normally drink on file so I can just choose my regulars: "Temple pour over", "Starbucks Americano", etc. and it knows the ounces and mg of caffeine in that drink.
- Let me define my wake/sleep times, or like the coffees keep a few saved times to easily choose from later.
- After I drank the first coffee, it should ask me if I want another one at the optimal peak (unless it's too near to my sleep hour). Partner with DoorDash to fulfill the order.
- The important part: Because DoorDash drivers will occasionally no-show, or drink the coffee themselves, you'll need some extra cash to cover costs, comp angry customers, etc. so you'll need a Series A. So we need to convert your UI into a ChatGPT wrapper that converses with the user in a friendly way, rather than in the VB6-esque UI I see here (as slick as it is).