Comment by lb1lf | Hacker News Reader

Comment by lb1lf | Hacker News Reader

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Presumably as Porsche is not about efficient transportation; it is about emotion, driving as an experience, making a statement, etc.

Chances are there will be - or, at least, Porsche appears to bet there will be - a sufficient number of well-heeled enthusiasts who prefer the sound, smell and vibration of an ICE to the quiet performance of an electric motor.

I am really curious to see how this pans out in a generation or two - I suspect nostalgia plays a significant role in the 'performance cars should have ICEs' mindset, so what happens when the generation who grew up on EVs enter middle age and have the disposable income for a performance car?

As for the rest of us, if, say, 1 in 1000 cars in a couple of decades' time burns fossil fuels, it is hardly going to be a nuisance. I'd be more worried (If I owned an ICE-powered vehicle) about the infrastructure needed to get the fossil fuels I needed in the tank.

(Glancing anxiously over at my 1949 S1 Land Rover (1.6l I4 petrol) and 1981 Land Cruiser 42 (3.4l I4 diesel) - neither of which are performance cars by any stretch of the imagination! The 3B engine in the Land Cruiser will merrily chug along on just about anything vaguely combustible you pour in the tank, though.)

If you're into that exotic hobby long after ICE cars are obsolete, you'll need to purchase synthetic fuel for it or purchase the equivalent amount of CO2 direct air capture. Sounds okay to me.

> performance cars should have ICEs

After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine.

When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.

Instant torque is cool, but goddamn it is soulless.

I'm sure they said the same when they saw the first photographs and compared them with paintings.

you might note that people still paint.

Well that also needs to be heavily vilified and taxed.

Ah yes we should all live in a gray bloc working in a gray factory until the end of time

Vilifying a d taxing any luxury not only is a ludicrous position, it will only make inequality worse. Its not like the 0.1% will renoujce to it, and taxes don't matter to them.

The parent comment you're replying to is a sarcasm.

Since paintings are mostly made by someone they are under income tax which is at least in my country the highest percentage of all taxes. Plus VAT like everything else. A painter this easily pays 60% tax on what you have to pay

If you want instant torque with soul, try a horse.

(the catch: this instant is often one which you weren't expecting, and if you are lucky it will mostly have been applied along the craniocaudal axis)

Yet the manual transmission is dying out too.

Which ICE performance car? I went from an SRT8 back in 2012 to a Tesla Model 3 performance + mods and now most recently went back to ICE via an AMG GT63. I can confidently say that the GT63 is leagues more fun than the Tesla ever was. Sure the Tesla was quick off the line, but outside of that it felt sterile and the ride was quite uninspired.

Model 3's didn't exist in 2012. Did you mean something else? I've driven an M3P for 5 years, and I wouldn't call it sterile.

I haven't been cross shopping it with vehicles that cost 3x as much and get only 15% of the mileage, so maybe I'm missing something? But weighing 10% more and taking 20% longer to reach 60 doesn't seem particularly compelling.

If it's the only car you've driven for five years of course it doesn't feel sterile, it's a wonderful car, and nothing against it, but it is not a fun car / "enthusiast" car insofar as enthusiast refers to the thin slice of all automotive enthusiasts that are primarily interested in handling that is dynamic and communicative

> If it's the only car you've driven for five years of course it doesn't feel sterile...

I don't understand what you're trying to say here, but clearly we disagree. To each their own.

-True, but I believe (at least this holds true for me) - the tinkerability, if you like, of ICEs is much higher. You can work on them at home, install all sorts of modifications and upgrades - real or perceived - to a much larger extent than you (currently) can on your EV.

It all depends on what makes cars interesting to you, of course - but a lot of the car enthusiast clientele would merrily start tinkering with their pride and joy even if all is well, just because they can.

You’re wasting your time if you have to explain passion and soul, of which these types have neither.

You can still modify an electric car's suspension with shocks, springs, anti roll bars, and performance tires.

Eh, no?

One car being objectively faster than another does not mean that it is more fun.

And even if one vehicle is more fun in some total measure, it will not be fun in all the same ways as all other fun vehicles.

There are plenty of people who alternate between something like a modern Mercedes V8 and a classic Mini. There is no question of which one is faster, but it might be the slow one that gives the most joy of sporty driving

Thats a very common misconception. Being very fast doesnt necessarily make a car very fun.

I suppose you don't know how to drive a manual either :)

I drove stick for a couple of decades. They were fun at the time (except in traffic jams), but I'm no Luddite. I can enjoy being thrown back into my seat with roller coaster acceleration without the accompaniment of vroom vroom noises, exhaust, and shifting.

I did test drive a Tesla and i agree any electric motor does the throwing back better than combustion.

But being thrown back is not the fun part. The fun part is controlling the car around those bends on a mountain road.

Anyone can floor it in a straight line.

The model 3 is a track car [0], literally with a tunable track mode. It weighs less than other track competitors like the M3 competition. It is fun in the bends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXqxiSZAevY

The fastest EV is nothing compared to the fastest ICE.

Top fuel dragsters accelerate from 0 to 100 mph in 0.8 seconds.

I have tried fast EV and it's boring. I prefer my loud meth injected turbo diesel BMW (520 lb/ft at the wheels, pulls like a Tesla but is not boring to me)

911 Turbos are faster than Teslas. Regardless, EVs feel like driving a washing machine. Some people are just not into that, or expect more. I’ve never been excited by any EV I sat down in, no matter how quickly they go 0-60.

> 911 Turbos are faster than Teslas.

Nope. Tesla Model S Plaid beats the 911 Turbo S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_car...

I was at a local track in my older bmw (non M), a Tesla 3 (on lowered springs) was next to me in the grid. It did not compete with the corvettes or Porsches but with the Miatas and Me, it just weighed too much in the turns to carry the speed.

The owner, who also tracks a Corvette, said he might upgrade the shocks next. I imagine sway bars could help too.

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