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No licensing fees, but they are charging a premium for non-Teslas to use the superchargers.

No licensing fees to use the connector but do we know they didn't pay any fees for access to Tesla's chargers?

EDIT - at least in Ford's case they've stated that they aren't https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/29/ford-tesla-supercharging-par...

As a non-Tesla EV owner, I would happily pay surcharges for charging on Tesla's network if it meant I could reliably use my vehicle on extended trips out of town. Tesla charging network has a very good reputation for reliability, which is a primary concern if I'm traveling on the highway. It's not something I do often, so paying a premium once in a while to use my EV instead of my ICE vehicle seems like a decent tradeoff.

There was someone on a EV Road Tripping group on Facebook mentioning how they took an EV from Florida to New Jersey and talked about how awful it was.

The top comment said something that every EV enthusiast knows. There are two wildly different charging experiences: Tesla, and everyone else.

Can you have a good experience with a non-Tesla? Sure! But with a Tesla, having a good experience is nearly guaranteed. With anyone else, it's a gamble.

You go to a Electrify America or some other charging network location, and you'll likely find only 2-4 stalls, and likely 1 or more of them are broken. Go to a Tesla Supercharger, and there's usually 8-16 chargers, all working. Even with a broken stall (It happens), you've got more available. And with so many stalls, and so many locations, it's exceptionally rare to get to a charging location and finding all of them in use.

This last week I took a road trip in my Model 3 from Portland to San Diego. 2,400 miles round trip. Never ran into a charging issue. I did see that a couple locations had a stall that was out of order, but with so many stalls, it wasn't an issue at all.

Ugh, please don't take this stance.

Gas stations don't charge different amounts for gas depending on the type of car, and EV charging stations shouldn't be permitted to do so either.

I don't have an EV, but I agree that Tesla has a much much better reputation for reliable, working charging stations in the US. If people will actually pay more for that experience, then sure, Tesla can charge more than a competing charging company. But they should be required to charge the same amount regardless of vehicle.

The only exception to that, I think, is that they should be able to charge differently based on charging speed, which is related to the type of vehicl. All gas cars will fill up at more or less the same rate, but with EVs it depends on the battery technology and the car's electrical system. Taking up space at a charging station for a longer amount of time to consume the same amount of energy is a cost to the operator (and an annoyance for anyone waiting in line), and it seems reasonable to charge for that. So I think it would be fair to charge $X/kWh + $Y/min.

I’m not so sure. One of Tesla’s big selling points is access to its charging network, which is a night-and-day difference from others. If Tesla is subsidizing that network but not raising prices for its own vehicles, it makes sense to charge non-Tesla vehicles a higher rate. It’s similar to how I get a significant discount on gas at Costco because I’m a member, while non-members pay more at the station across the street.

How can you have such a strong opinion when you don’t even own an EV?

It's not at all about how much is being charged.

The difference with gas stations, and it can't be underestimated, is that I can typically stop at a minimum every 30 miles and refuel at a gas pump. It's almost guaranteed. Sure, driving through sparsely populated areas on a remote highway might be different, but every interstate highway is going to have reliable fueling infrastructure for ICE's. I don't have to worry if the pump is broken, I don't have to worry about waiting 45 minutes for a pump, and I certainly don't have to worry about if there will be a pump at all.

Do you have a source showing they are charging higher prices for non Teslas?

This is common knowledge. I don't have a link to send you, but I've just looked up the closest supercharger on the Tesla website and it charges 0.55$ / kWh for NACS vehicles, while in my Tesla app the same supercharger shows 0.42$ / kWh.

I feel bad for people who can't charge at home. I get to charge at my residential 11.5¢/kWh. Though I don't go far from home very often so I've never charged anywhere else. If I wasn't getting this rate the savings over gas would get a lot narrower.

My electric plan has free evenings so I charge for free!

I'm surprised crypto bros haven't bought every house in your neighborhood

It’s a Texas plan not specifically for a neighborhood

Ditto

As much of an EV enthusiast as I am, I tell people that if they can't charge at home, don't get an EV.

I'm in a similar boat, my electricity is I think 11 cents/kWh. $8.25 to completely charge my battery, which will then get me ~250 miles. The cost-per-mile is equivalent to getting over 125 mpg.

I’ve been driving EVs for six years now and I do not have the ability to charge at home or work. It’s been a non-issue. I charge late at night and it’s about $0.18/kWh which is still way less than gas.

Obviously it’s more convenient if you can charge at home or work, but I disagree that such a thing is mandatory to own an EV.

Here in the bay area, my at home charging costs are very close to a supercharger. something like 35c vs 40c.

It's actually cheaper at supercharger, $.26 after midnight, but ~$.50 during off peak at home after all extra fees in SJ, even after selecting EV charging plan.

$.50/kWh? That's crazy. It's $0.22 in Palo Alto ($0.19 for the first 450 kWh/month). I didn't realize it was such a good deal compared to PG&E.

It was cheaper at home for a long time. But 1+ years ago, they kept jacking up the price for no apparent reason.

San Jose resident here, you shouldn't be paying that much. If you have a TOU plan it's something like 35¢/kWh off-peak and 50 or so during peak times. They do keep raising the prices for no reason but not that much (yet).

Do you have Silicon Valley Power in PA? I had it in Santa Clara a decade and a half ago, I swear it was like 8 cents at the time.

10 years ago, PG&E was 18 cents here. Now, 38+.

The price usually varies over the day; in the morning (until ~10am IIRC) and late at night here in the Seattle area it's 14¢/kWh for supercharging and my residential electricity is around 11¢/kWh.

But, if you can't charge at work nor at home, EV car isn't worth it.

Seems strange, in Europe where Tesla chargers are open to all CCS2 vehicles, the prices are the same for everyone. On most chargers you can just tap your payment card to start the charge, although I think you can get cheaper rates as a member too.

I mean, the EU and the US have _extremely_ different views on competition regulation (or, at least, different enthusiasms for it; the actual philosophy isn't that different, but the FTC has been basically moribund since the late 90s, whereas the EC is if anything getting more aggressive lately).

> On most chargers you can just tap your payment card to start the charge

This will be mandatory as of next year.

> although I think you can get cheaper rates as a member too.

AIUI this will no longer be permitted as of next year.

From the article: GM is also updating its brand apps to allow customers to search for available Superchargers, check station status, initiate a charge, and pay for charging sessions. Tesla has said that non-Tesla owners would have to pay a little more to charge their vehicles than Tesla owners.

It's in the article: "Tesla has said that non-Tesla owners would have to pay a little more to charge their vehicles than Tesla owners."

In Europe Tesla offer a subscription that gives you the same prices as Teslas get. Otherwise you pay more. Of course Tesla then makes a profit on the subscription cost.

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