Univ. of North Texas' body parts business: Cutting up and leasing out the poor | Hacker News Reader

Univ. of North Texas' body parts business: Cutting up and leasing out the poor

nbcnews.com

22 pointsGeekette14 comments

The premise of this program is reasonable. If a cadaver is unclaimed, then letting the next generation of doctors use it for training is not a bad solution to the problem. I'll grant its sad when loved ones find out too late to do anything about it, but thats the nature of the beast.

The real question is, are we sure that institutions using their "best effort" to find next-of-kin has been corrupted enough as a process that we should switch our default from medical training and science to rotting in an unmarked grave?

I really struggle to say that it has. At least from the information provided by this article.

There is a pervasive bias in "social issue" journalism to only assign responsibility to institutions and never even an iota on complainants. If closest relatives don't check in for the many months/years (as stated in the article) it usually takes a dying and then dead individual to reach this limbo status, and the deceased hasn't named them in a will, then they should own of the consequences of their ignorant estrangement (however cosmically unfair its reasons) and not seek frivolous lawsuits.

And what of the person who hired a detective to look for the person? Or the hospitals that refused to return the bodies until they were done with them, after the family contacted them?

The lack of respect shown to bodies is probably pervasive. There have been articles about it in the past, and it seems to be an issue in many universities around the world. Things like playing with body parts, making sexual comments, vulgar/inappropriate jokes, etc. A lot of that is probably because it is students dealing with cadavers, not people with more life experience.

That lack of respect can also stretch to parts belonging to patients who are alive. For example see the recent skull flap fiasco (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/23/us/atlanta-brain-surgery-...), where a patient’s skull was partially removed for an emergency surgery and then lost due to mishandling. That person had to deal with an artificial skull flap, which then got infected, and he had to go through repeated procedures as a result - all at his expense, despite it being the hospital’s fault for losing the part. Investigations showed that the hospital had a broader problem with respectfully handling and cataloging body parts.

Coming back to the linked article, the fact that bodies were cut up and sold without consent is not surprising when I connect the dots with these other situations. People in general lack basic dignity these days. I want to blame social media, but I don’t know if that is it. Although I am an atheist I do wonder if this is a vacuum left behind by religion? Or is it simply economic pressure to survive? Either way, I feel sad for family members who have to think about their loved ones being dismembered and sold.

People are assholes. It's always been this way; where have you been?

Huh, I admit I'm charmed by this meta comment.

Ah ok cool I guess we'll just stop trying to be respectful as a society then, since there's no point.

For the absolute worst case, see: Bodies: The Exhibition

"Concerns have been raised by human rights advocates that the bodies are those of executed Chinese prisoners, and that the families of the victims have not consented."

In one case, it's suspected the government killed the pregnant mistress of a cheating government official and her and the fetus are now a display item.

Wow I had never heard of this, it's pretty egregious.

Do you want a good doctor or a do you want a respectful one? I don't care much for good bedside manner as long as they are competent. They can be a philandering frat boy or a silicon valley psychopath, I don't care so long as they are competent at medicine. Don't gatekeep medical practice.

Frankly a wild take. Por qué no los dos?

I don't see there being anything about "being a decent human being" that precludes that person from also being a good doctor. Yes, "Should we excuse someone's reprehensible behavior simply for some measure of good they also do?" is an argument to be had, but there is no doubt a line there somewhere.

> Do you want a good doctor or a do you want a respectful one?

Those are my only two choices?

> The lack of respect shown to bodies is probably pervasive. There have been articles about it in the past, and it seems to be an issue in many universities around the world. Things like playing with body parts, making sexual comments, vulgar/inappropriate jokes, etc. A lot of that is probably because it is students dealing with cadavers, not people with more life experience.

I have done occasional cadaver training as a paramedic. The company the agencies around here use is very adamant about respect. Things like: faces are wrapped for anonymity unless there's a need (which isn't often, we can train on intubation with just an opening in the bandage for the mouth area and appropriate tension on the bandage for moving the jaw/head), similar with other body parts (not just laid nude on a table). Information is provided on who the donor is, etc.

The company pays for all burial/cremation/etc. costs for those donors. They will optimize to get the most "use" from the body, and after cremation, remains are sent to the next of kin along with a letter, a la, "Your loved one's donation helped: paramedics in Washington practice emergency airway management, surgeons in Colorado practice [procedure], XYZ practice hip replacement", etc.

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41572087

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