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Comment by Mordisquitos | Hacker News Reader

Maybe part of the reason ordinary people are "overtaxed" is that companies are able to do this.

No it’s because an un-elected class of political invents new ways to launder our money over and over. How else does a politician with a small salary end u on millionaire over and over? They do not get book and consulting deals out of the goodness of the public hearts

It's fine to believe this. But you should be aware it's a partisan political opinion, and it's inflammatory to present it as an objective fact. Is this site really the place for partisan political opinions?

How is it partisan? They mentioned no parties or politicians. What they said applies equally to all politicians regardless of leaning.

@knodi123, what is partisan about fleabagmange's statement? They don't mention any politician, political party, or even political ideology.

More to the point, it isn't the politicians of only one party who are getting rich this way.

Well, apart from medicine, irrigation, health, roads, cheese and education, baths and the Circus Maximus, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Great so that’s like .05% off the tax i paid. Whered the rest go

Is there a reason you don't seem to be considering that companies lobby politicians to allow this?

Of course they do. But "lower taxes on ordinary people by defunding corruption" is a very different proposal than "sustain funding for corruption by raising taxes".

Indeed. Once is a great idea for the vast majority who don't benefit. The other eventually leads to gradual collapse or violent revolutions.

The amount of money given by companies to congresspeople to save on taxes is necessarily lower than the amount of money not paid in taxes by doing so. I would be surprised if the return was less than 10x.

The amount of money given by companies to congresspeople to pass corrupt spending programs that enrich the companies is necessarily lower than the amount of money spent on those programs, too. Nobody expects that members of Congress would get all of the money. But they're not meant to be getting any of it, and the fact that they continue to implies that the corruption is ongoing.

Given that 100% tax compliance at the highest rates would not solve any high tax nation’s budget holes

You should be asking the same questions that companies are asking: instead of “why arent we getting hosed equally” its “why are we getting hosed at all”

Capitalism only works if someone gets hosed. And of course as we all know, the only alternative to capitalism is communism which is scary and evil! Don't you see how good you have it under the hose?

Given the nature of the human being, there’s no way to live in a free society without someone being hosed. And even then, capitalism has improved the life conditions of those hosed. Communism removes the freedom for everyone and it is effectively hosing everyone at the same time.

That's not true, Soviet communism generated wealthy elites just like any other dictatorship, they just didn't have formal wealth.

It’s been very tightly intertwined with the position. When you retire, your wealth is gone, and sometimes retirement equals a purge. I wouldn’t call this being among the wealthy elite by any means. Today, you live in the center of Moscow, and tomorrow you’re an ‘enemy of the people’—good luck proving otherwise.

> and sometimes retirement equals a purge

That's just dictatorships man, you gotta keep playing the game well or you end up tortured to death in a salt mine.

That is right. Communism only brings wealth to those high in their political hierarchy.

Improving IRS tax collection enforcement could generate significant funds

In fiscal year 2021 the IRS managed more than $4.1 trillion in tax revenue. The annual tax gap was estimated at $688 billion in 2021, with $625 billion remaining uncollected even after enforcement efforts.

16.7 percent.

and you don’t realize that this proves my point?

~$5.3 trillion doesn't solve the US’ budget holes, while the US government tells you what transactions to make to not be taxed

That's the amount of taxes that companies/people legally owe but don't pay (and are collectable).

It's not really related to the amount of taxes that are legally avoided by big businesses through techniques like this "double Irish Dutch sandwich."

I’m aware

What is your preferred outcome?

I'm not sure that my preferred outcome is relevant to what the other person meant, but I would like a simpler tax structure and higher-than-current effective rates for wealthy entities.

So collecting all those extra taxes would cover somewhere south of 25% of the budget deficit for 2021. You aren’t wrong, but the parent isn’t wrong either.

And most important questions: why is the government so expensive, do we really need all of this, is it efficient? How is the efficiency evaluated?

I really despise some of these anarcho capitalist arguments.

A society that isn't lifted by redistributing wealth through taxes creates nothing but a more inequal and dangerous society for everyone.

We can all argue about inefficiencies, what is the right amount of spending and funding, but redistributing taxes by creating socially needed projects, from roads that you use, to ports through your shipments to policing streets so your daughter is safer when she goes out with friends. The list is so long.

People don't even realize how much wealth and prosperity has been created by redistributing wealth through taxes.

> A society that isn't lifted by redistributing wealth through taxes creates nothing but a more inequal and dangerous society for everyone.

I mean.... the government is taking tax money from the "poor" (so, normal workers, who cannot avoid paying taxes the way the article described, and whatever new way will be used after the changes), and giving them to a few friendly corporations who give back a percentage to politicians and normal peple usually get nothing.

This is again worth debating, but many comments here imply that the best amount of taxes is 0.

I don't think they realize the kind of place they would end up living in.

People would be mich happier if the taxes were 50% less, the waste and corruption would be gone. And services were at similar level. Right now, US health care is redistributing money from poor people to rich.

“Given that 100% tax compliance at the highest rates would not solve any high tax nation’s budget holes“

Can I ask where this claim originated from please?

yeah absolutely, I look at the nation’s debt load - which it does pay interest on from tax revenues - and its increase of debt load alongside actual spending of debt sale proceeds, and compare that to how much it collects in taxes

I use that government’s official sources to do that math

Additionally, in some nations, there are underfunded liabilities, future necessary spending

And it all far eclipses what the nation makes in revenue from taxes, tariffs and productive industries it owns - if any

If there an aspect of accounting that I’m misunderstanding, by all means enlighten me

> I use that government’s official sources to do that math

You mean the source of the claim is you, you personally did the math for all "high tax nations" whatever those are, and you're presenting the claim without any of the math or explaining any qualifier like "high" from "high tax"?

Swell.

I typically look at the US, France, Germany, UK

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