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Comment by NetOpWibby | Hacker News Reader

PresButan is mandatory for me on macOS so I can make the Delete/Backspace key delete files.

Genuine q: is cmd–backspace too much? I’m in general pretty satisfied with the Finder keyboard navigation/editing. Especially with “enter” for rename, copy/paste/cut/move and deletion too…

I never understood the enter for rename shortcut. People open (or "execute", which is the general understanding of the action for the "enter" key) files far more than they rename them.

It makes sense if one considers the angle of how single-key shortcuts are much more disaster-prone.

For example, if the user has a large number of files selected and accidentally triggers the open shortcut by hitting enter, their computer is going to be stuck spinning its wheels for a while (the more files involved and the heavier the applications they open in, the worse it'll be) unless they force restart. Involving a modifier key filters for intention pretty well, and so while this scenario is possible with ⌘O, it's far less likely.

Most Mac shortcuts seem to follow this, with those that are single-key by default doing relatively harmless and easily reversible things.

> It makes sense if one considers the angle of how single-key shortcuts are much more disaster-prone.

> ...

> Most Mac shortcuts seem to follow this, with those that are single-key by default doing relatively harmless and easily reversible things.

The enter-to-rename behavior has been in Mac OS since near the beginning, when versions were just named something like "System N.M").

IIRC, I've heard they had very detailed UI design documents back then, that explained their choices (e.g. I've heard they explained the reason for the menu bar being at the top of the screen rather than the top of a window was the cursor will just stop there, requiring less mousing precision).

So if that's the case, there should be documents confirming or denying your speculation.

http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf

(you can compare to the current ones and similar docs for other platforms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_guidelines)

Thank you, now I finally understand why the difference between "enter" and cmd+O!

The Mac didn’t have a CLI in the first 16 years or so, so there’s no traditional “execute” meaning for the Enter key. I’d argue that the thought here was that by pressing that key, you’d want to enter a new name for the selected file.

That's not a bad thought, but traditiona Mac keyboards didn't even have an "enter" key. (And nor do their current tenkeyless ones.) They just had a "return" key. The "enter" key only came around when the 10-key numpad was introduced, and it gave a different key code than the return key (which lives/lived where "enter" lives on PC keyboards).

I don't recall whether "enter" renamed files, and I can't check whether it does at the moment because all my mac keyboards within reach are tenkeyless, but "return" always has.

Just checked- both 'enter' and 'return' active the rename action.

Yes, it is too much. I've spent 20 years deleting by pressing one button. Why require two?

In order to not accidentally delete something, IMO.

Cmd+Z

Only if you notice that you've deleted something.

Okay so, seeing as this is me running this command on my computer...I'd notice I deleted something accidentally.

…Or, your cat did? Or small children, or something bumping a key unbeknownst yo you…

But I agree that configurable is generally better.

The macOS behavior has been the way it is for I believe 30 years, perhaps longer. Im not sure where your expectation of changing this comes from.

Who said I expected macOS to change?

I am not changing, so that's why I install an additional app.

I don’t mind most of them, but the cut/move is IMO unusable.

opt-cmd-v for move vs cmd-v for copy? Pretty usable imho!

- 'cos of backward logic compared to all other applications' move/copy logic

- cmd+opt is a hell of a combination to type

If it worked like that in other Mac apps, I wouldn’t mind. Then you would just adjust to “this is how MacOS does cut-and-paste” and after an initial adjustment it would make complete sense.

But in every other Mac app, even in TextEdit, you would Cmd-X to cut a piece of text and Cmd-V to then paste it somewhere else. The same logic is used to e.g. move an image within a note or email, which is also a file.

So Finder is simply inconsistent with the rest of the OS, and after 4 years as a Mac user I have just given up and use either drag-and-drop or a terminal when I need to move stuff.

I think the issue is if you do cmd-x on a file and then don’t paste it will it be deleted…?

cmd-c & cmd-opt-v is a different, “safer” operation.

The finder probably chooses this paradigm because cut + paste is destructive. If you cut text and never paste it, the next time you copy out cut you lose that text forever. So if you used the same paradigm for files in the finder, you could accidentally and permanently delete a file because you cut it and then fat fingered copy instead of paste. If this happens with text from a file you can often just close the file and not save to get your text back, or hit undo because cut text is part of your undo history (usually). But storing whole files in some undo history seems like it could go wrong real quick since either you couldn’t actually delete the file from disk until the history expired or the finder was restarted, or an undo might take a significant amount of time because you moved between file systems. Or imagine if the destination file system crashed during transfer or unmounted after. Then you couldn’t undo at all.

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