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Comment by arianvanp | Hacker News Reader

> The laptop is also prone to occasionally cooking itself in a bag and discharging the battery while "suspended". This might be a Linux problem not a Framework problem:

It's actually a Microsoft problem. They've crippled any kind of sleep in x86 because they want to be able to spy on you whilst the laptop is off.

Any laptop after 2013 is basically unusable.

The framework laptop is so bad compared to my MacBook that I basically never use it. As any time I put it in the bag the battery is dead the next day.

Same with Windows and Linux. No difference. The thing just will always die after a day.

I either use my MacBook or my T430 for which I can still buy replacement batteries They're the only kind of sane devices.

I hope Microsoft's push to ARM will fix all of this mess and we can leave this chapter of buggy Intel and AMD "laptop" crap behind us.

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On Linux I've configured the OS to hibernate when I close the lid instead of sleeping. With today's SSD speeds, waking up from hibernation instead of sleep only adds 5-10s. Unless you're constantly opening and closing your laptop lid, that shouldn't affect your daily routine that much

It's a work-around at best, and not a nice one if you consider the wasted disk space.

I don't understand why all vendors are actively trying to kill S3 sleep. It doesn't make any sense.

Because Windows stopped using s3 sleep. Testing and ensuring that s3 sleep works is a cost for laptop makers, and the number of Linux users is apparently not enough to justify it.

> Testing and ensuring that s3 sleep works is a cost for laptop makers

s/laptop makers/CPU vendors/

Reportedly neither Intel nor AMD are willing to support you if you’re developing firmware with S3 support for a platform using their recent CPUs (I believe that means ≥ 13th gen resp. ≥ Zen 4 but I’m not sure).

Why would it be resolved by Microsofts Push to ARM if it's caused by Microsofts desire to spy on the user?

Also, the issue generally goes away as long as you detach the power connection before you're closing the lid, because the issue isn't actually caused by Microsoft.

They do want to spy on the users though, this just isn't an issue related to that.

ARM chips are generally better at conserving power than x86, simply because they have less instruction decode HW.

I managed to enable S3 sleep on a modern laptop with AMD Ryzen 7 6800H by using Smokeless UMAF: https://github.com/DavidS95/Smokeless_UMAF/

To be fair I've had the exact same issue with my M1 MacBook Pro. It has even drained its battery sitting on my desk for a weekend.

At least Apple lets you turn it off. Go to Settings -> Battery -> Options and change "Wake for network access" from "Always" to "Only on power adapter" or "Never".

Mine is on never, so as usual, macOS settings are useless.

(like switching the scroll direction between touchpad and mouse, where you have two separate toggles which toggle each other. "Just works" my ass)

You likely want to turn off Power Nap, in addition to wake on network access.

For the scrolling, https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels is wonderful

Cool, another third party random project I have to run to get macOS to not actively suck (like window management with rectangle, custom shortcuts with Karabiner).

Yeah, it's pretty annoying at first, coming from Windows and most desktop Linuxes where those things are out-of-the-box. Then you still have to shim in a package manager (brew etc.), git (xcode CLI just for an old version? sigh), etc. It's even worse trying to get a gaming setup going, between dealing with mouse scrolling and acceleration differences, Rosetta and GPT (game porting toolkit, not the AI stuff), etc.

At the end of the day, I don't think us dev types and power users are the core audience for Apple =/ We're just a niche. But at least once you have it all set up, it mostly keeps working after that.

I just hope they don't lock down macOS like iOS and iPadOS altogether. Presumably they'd always need a machine like that if only to develop for iOS and iPadOS and such... fingers crossed.

It's definitely an "enjoy it while it lasts" mindset for me though, like everything in tech.

Do you have any weird corporate management software running on it? That can do all sorts of nonsense, unfortunately.

If not, turn off "Power Nap" (https://support.apple.com/en-ie/guide/mac-help/mh40774/mac - the option is, annoyingly, kinda hidden.)

Same. Including weird audio clicks during supposed 'sleep' (already happend during heavy load while awake). Then one day this summer it just died without any recourse.

> > The laptop is also prone to occasionally cooking itself in a bag and discharging the battery while "suspended".

I've had this problem and updating the linux firmware packages to the kernel repo ones of all components fixed it 99.9% of the cases. It's an AMD though so ymmv.

Still want S3 sleep instead of fake-S3 aka S2-idle aka spy-sleep.

Not sure if I'm missing something, but the term "sleep" has never meant "power down" in Windows. It's just a lower power state that keeps all your applications running.

AFAIK you can still enable hibernation (which does actually power down the machine) in the control panel.

Completely agree. Google modern standby or hybrid sleep. Its terrible.

I just full hibernate or shutdown when going into a bag. This is as true for my work thinkpad, as it is for my personal razer as it is for our more family/general use framework 13 that is de facto my wifes computer.

As a kid I installed Ubuntu in the first laptop I ever owned. One day, I put it in my backpack. It probably woke up from sleep and got fried because it was unusable after that.

Still holding a grudge on Linux for that one.

Heh, the first time I installed Ubuntu, installation took a while so we went out to lunch.

When we came back, the laptop had partially melted and burnt through the glass table underneath it... pretty scary stuff.

> because they want to be able to spy on you whilst the laptop is off.

Source?

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