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Comment by roland35 | Hacker News Reader

Last year I crunched my Framework laptop - basically bent the screen and the top shell badly enough that the screen was dead. Luckily I was able to purchase a new top shell and screen for ~$150 and replace it myself! I also popped in another stick of RAM while I had it open.

I am not sure that level of diy servicability is even possible with any other laptop!

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Purism. I got shipped a dud screen and they told me to open it up and check all the cables, etc.

Then the battery died and I had to replace the motherboard - they shipped me a replacement (for not much) and I did the replacement myself. Kinds fun and very simple. All the screws and fasteners are standard and obvious.

You got a broken screen when you bought the thing and they made you do the repairs yourself? And then charged you to replace a broken battery..?

Why would anyone do business with them?

Because it's possible for a user to service the machine. If you get a MacBook or other laptop you CANNOT easily change anything.

Repairability is nice, but when so many parts are broken so soon after purchase (at least from my reading of the GP), the company should be replacing the whole laptop, not charging the customer and shipping one replacement piece at a time. It makes me worry about their quality control process and customer service.

They did ship a replacement laptop for the screen fix.

I was in rural Australia at the time, I would have massively preferred to be able to fix it myself instead of waiting almost 3 months for a replacement. Unfortunately, while I could do the diagnostic check myself, there was no way of fixing it myself.

When the battery died I was in Berlin. It was out of warranty at that point. Paying a couple hundred euros for a replacement motherboard was by far the cheapest and best option.

My first Macbook also had a screen die on it (they just handed me a replacement as it was still in warranty), so from my perspective we're 1:1 on QC for Apple and Purism.

Depending on the model, Thinkpads come in fairly close to Frameworks.

https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/laptop-repairability-sc...

L14 Gen 2:

https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netb...

No official videos for newest models, but not as easy as a framework, IMO.

Lenovo produce extensive manuals for every Thinkpad, and they're designed to be fully field-serviceable, since that's what they're selling with their on-site warranties. The laptops aren't optimized for it the way they were in IBM days, but it can be done.

Said manual, https://www.ifixit.com/Document/eB5AOj2tsb6KBXD2/l14_gen5_l1...

Same procedure as Gen 2 by the looks of it (pg 108), not sure how it has a 9 for an iFixit score, unless you discount replacing the panel itself, or consider replacing panels adhered with adhesive tape as an easy repair. I personally do not. Having replaced many cell phone digitizers and screens in my day, I see it as messy and prone to error. Maybe the score is relative?

I just broke my screen and replacement screen will take 24 weeks.

I used to always pay for in-home service with my ThinkPads. The hinge broke on one of them, a guy came out the next day and replaced it on my dining table.

Not sure if that repair channel has a separate parts stream, but when there isn't a shortage, it's an amazing service.

Only adds a few hundred bucks and was totally worth it the several times I've had to use it. The ThinkPads I had never had very good build quality and their non US based support isn't great. With the at home service, you deal with a real person who comes to your house or business.

Then I eventually switched to Apple and never had to get anything fixed again...

A agree, you can get a service person to show up and fix it. I had this done before, its pretty nice. Its also expensive outside of warranty. You can have that and self-service.

I did that with my previous MBP (2015 15" retina). The lid cost a lot more but was quite easy to replace. Also I've replaced many many bits on thinkpads before for myself and other people.

MBP Display https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5rYqscZRpk

Framework Display https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Display+Replacement+Guide/86

(If you needed to replace the top cover as well: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Top+Cover+Replacement+Guide/...)

Also, no options to swap the RAM in a MBP after 2012.

Well you still can upgrade the RAM on an Intel Macbook (not sure about M1+) and the SSD on all of them. It does require a hot air station and some skills though. Having done that stuff for years it doesn't bother me but it's an obvious barrier to anyone who hasn't done anything like it.

Not that I've had to upgrade a machine for about 10 years and never had one fail on me.

* no easy options

Do you think it was a durability issue or would this have happened to any laptop?

Oh definitely my fault. I stepped on it!

you can do the same thing on pretty much any thinkpad

replacing the motherboard, with new cpu etc ?

while still fitting within the frame and so on

I was referring to the problem pointed out by the original post. that is doable with a thinkpad.

as for replacing motherboards and CPU, it is still possible on Thinkpads. the older T440p let you change CPU in its socket. Other more limited thinkpads let you replace the motherboard with a new one fairly easily (identical model). as for replacing your mobo by a more recent one, I think only the Framework allows that for now.

I bought my Framework laptop and promptly moved to a country with a lesser species of human, if we were to use framework's logic, I assume. I mean, it wasn't until like last year they opened up deliveries to Taiwan, you know, the country where the thing is manufactured. Of course, europe, the US, you know, the countries with real people™, has had access to their marketplace since day one.

So, I've spent three years with a dying battery and bashed case, a warped screen shell, but I have no recourse. Honestly, it would have been better to buy an actual open source laptop that allows generic replacements, not one from their own store that, let's be real, will go kaput one day when the founder gets bored. The whole "diy serviceability" doesn't really square when you can't get your own parts.

> and promptly moved to a country with a lesser species of human, if we were to use framework's logic, I assume

I feel you.

I’ve been in your shoes, and I used to hold a similar grudge. But what I’ve realized lately is that selling products to foreign countries is a massively complex mess of tasks due to local laws and policies, which can be ridiculously counterintuitive. Vendors need time and money to learn all the pitfalls for each individual country and to figure out how to manage the remaining risk properly.

If Framework knew how to ship you a product without risking violating local regulations left and right, they would likely be happy to do so.

The ultimate conclusion is still that, if you need to remain in non-approved countries for prolonged amounts of time, a Framework will be more difficult and expensive to repair for you than a laptop from one of the mainstream vendors, not less. Moreover, Framework will actively work to ensure you can’t repair it by banning dropshippers. So that needs to be part of the calculation.

You think it's easy selling something all over the world? They sell where the most market is.

They do not sell to where more than half of the world's population is.

Right now. They recently made it available in my European country. Poster makes it sound like some racist shit but they need to follow market.

On one hand, you can't expect a small outfit like Framework to offer cheap worldwide shipping.

On the other hand, you have a great point about "DIY serviceability" being useless if you can't get parts for a reasonable price.

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