Comment by burnte | Hacker News Reader

Comment by burnte | Hacker News Reader

ACE of 8. Only child, single mother with psychiatric problems, absent dad with psychiatric problems, I was nearly killed by him at age 4, homeless twice before I was ten, no extended family to rely on at all. Mom died of Dementia at 65 when I was barely 30, and I took care of her starting when I was 25, giving up a great job in Boston.

I'm a VP of IT in a healthcare company, my third healthcare gig with this particular $12b PE investment firm. I was previously CIO twice at the others, first rising up from IT Director to Executive Director of IT, then CIO. I've been doing IT for 30+ years, and I'm damn good at it. I just cut our phone system expenses by $300k/yr, and I'm in a project to cut our EMR expense by 70% over the next 9 months. I've been a service tech, salesman, programmer, writer, author, datacenter admin, network admin, web developer, dotcom startup "CIO", and more.

I work hard, I care tremendously for my family and my employees, I love where I've managed to get, and I'm not done yet,

Hopefully this is not too tangential, but it's something that's been on my mind a bit recently.

When you had kids (or I guess anyone who is considering having kids), did you ever fear of "passing down" your trauma?

I feel that us tech workers, for all intents and purposes, have "made it," which might best position us in general to overcome and prevent a cycle of trauma to the next generation.

Yes. The fear is real, and 100% more tangible when you're holding your child the first few times. Overcome with love, joy and sadness because you cannot comprehend how anyone could treat someone that they love so deeply in a bad way.

I don't think "made it" is the differentiator here. It's more about emotional maturity and acceptance that you're chiefly responsible for another human beings experience of the world: What you put in can set them up, or break them down.

That said, I created some rules for myself:

  1. Never lie to children. It's easy to make up a story to avoid an emotional outburst. People that lie cannot be trusted, trust is the cornerstone of a relationship, don't lie.
  2. Don't avoid emotions. Lean in. Feeling emotions is a human right. Let kids feel emotions. Be with them and make them feel safe. Through conversation try to dissect, explain and appreciate why they're feeling emotional.
  3. Hug them. Only let go when they let go.
  4. Say goodbye. Don't sneak out the house to avoid an emotional outburst. Not understanding where a parent went, or why you missed them leaving is traumatic. Say goodbye.
  5. Never pretend that you'll leave them. Kid is at playground and doesn't want to leave? Never faux walk away and pretend you're leaving without them. Fear is not a parenting strategy, it's abuse.

I'm sure my list will grow. My daughter is 2. I try to live with integrity, honesty and love. What I get out is pure unfettered joy.

Is there a more complete list by someone else?

#1 is exceptionally powerful. My parents never lied to me or attempted to deceive me. They always emphasized telling the truth, no matter how painful the consequences might be.

I’ve seen other families that lie to each other about the most trivial of things and it ends up with them all constantly feeling gaslit and not trusting each other. How horrible it would be to not have that feeling of safety and security with your own parents.

This is why we never did even ostensibly innocuous lying like Santa Claus.

Is #5 really that bad? Kids can be real shitheads sometimes, but you have to be willing to really go through with it.

>but you have to be willing to really go through with it.

you have to really be willing to leave them?

Yes, it is that bad. I used to do it a lot. Didn't help the slightest. As soon as I adopted an "I'll do it for you" strategy everyone's lives started to improve. Even mine.

Yes, it is that bad. I used to do it a lot. Didn't help the slightest. As soon as I adopted an "I'll do it for you" strategy everyone's lives started to improve. Even mine.

A well-meaning but frustrated parent might try that move in the moment but not consider what it could mean from their child's perspective. "My parent could leave me" should never be a potential consequence for misbehaving.

They're probably more aware of it because of worse things they've endured like it. A severe example is kicking your kid out of the car and driving off without them. Or packing them a bag and forcing them out of the apartment.

This. I was in the car with my mom and I wouldn't shut up. She told me to and if I didn't, she'd make me walk home. Open my mouth I did!

I walked maybe 2 miles home. Stopped in every store/business where I knew someone. I stopped in the stationary store, the little 5 and dime, a doctor's office. Said hello and chatted a bit. I had to have been 7 or 8. Some folks asked where my mom was and I told them what happened. I have no recollection of what they said. All I know is that I walked on home. Thank goodness there were sidewalks and that I knew where I was going.

What had a much greater negative effect was the walkathon. I was a fat kid and somehow decided I was going to walk 20 miles to raise money for some charity. No one, most of all my father, thought I would walk more than a couple of miles. So neighbors, friends, colleagues of 'rents pledged $20/mile.

Day of, my friend and I were told to go to friend's mom's office when we finished and she'd drive us home. Off we went! Thank goodness we had some idea where we were. It took us all. day. long. We went to a wedding, watched some cute guys play basketball, admired gardens, and talked and talked. We were at the tail end and had no idea if anyone was in front of us or what time it was. Got to the center of town and the organizers had packed up. We had to walk probably 1/2 mile to friend's mom's office. . . and I finally showed up at home and it was like I'd never gone! Sometimes the walkaton pops into my head and I wonder how the hell my parents were not worried about me. More now that my mother has moved in with us and we talk more. I actually asked her about it the other day and she remembers nothing about the walk other than I walked all 20 miles.

End of the world? Absolutely not. But it sure taught me about what my parents thought I could do.

Yes, #1 really is that bad. Especially for _small_ children.

Yeah my 10-month old son asks for me constantly(da da di da ta ti) if I'm away from him for more than a few hours. Separation is really tough for them to deal with because they don't have the tools or sophistication to understand why we're gone and that we're coming back. I had to spend a few weeks away from him when he was 4 months when my wife needed to be somewhere with a working kitchen and a clean floor and I needed to repair our kitchen and I think he was "colicky" during that time because he didn't understand where I was or when I would be back. This persisted during the week and then when I would spend the day with them he would calm down.

It's threatening abandonment if they fail to comply with whatever whim you have. It's actually one of the most traumatic things you can do to a small child - because they've learned what you want is all that matters, and if they don't guess what you want properly, they'll be left without a parent.

So yeah - it's pretty bad.

That makes sense. So, how get kid outta playground?

#5 is the only one I do, but because I never thought about it as a fear mechanic - I'll definitely avoid doing this now. That said, what's a good alternative? Sometimes you don't have time to bargain, is picking them up kicking and screaming actually better?

Corollary to #1: never lie to adults who are close to you.

That's a great list; while not explicitly writing them out, we raise our kids by similar rules, and I think it's been a huge help. #1 is huge. We also explicitly answer any question they ask (barring privacy concerns). The answers vary based on how old they are, and what they're capable of understanding, but they can always ask for more detail if we guess wrong. It lets them know that there are no taboo subjects with us, and they can always come to us with their hard questions.

It did mean nuanced conversations about how not to ruin the "Santa Clause game" for other kids, etc.

Not OP or a parent, but this is absolutely a fear of mine. I don't think I'd be actively bad for them, passively lacking in critical areas like emotional support.

Hell, I don't have the energy or social skills to get to that point. Either I or the other person move on, so I just optimize the process.

> When you had kids (or I guess anyone who is considering having kids), did you ever fear of "passing down" your trauma?

No kids yet because of exactly what' you've said. I was not going to have kids until I could give them a better life, even if that means I never have them. We're actually trying now because I'm comfortable with my life and skills now.

"I'm damn good at it. I just cut our phone system expenses by $300k/yr, and I'm in a project to cut our EMR expense by 70% over the next 9 months."

Tell me you work in PE without telling me you work in PE.

I told you I work in PE, but that's not the point of the statement. I cut spending and improve services because I know how to spend properly. The phone system changeover gained us a lot of functionality and ease of use while cutting spending dramatically.

Same with our EMR. We can get better for less, that's what I do. PE isn't the only sector that wants to cut unneeded costs.

"PE isn't the only sector that wants to cut unneeded costs."

But PE stereotypically cuts cost in a shortsighted way.

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