Everyone says Chrome devastates Mac battery life, but does it? 36 hour test
birchtree.me
birchtree.me
The subtext is John Gruber's post 6 days ago, defending Apple's iOS lockdown: "Imagine — and this takes a lot of imagination — if Google actually shipped a version of Chrome for iOS, only for the EU, that used its own battery-eating rendering engine instead of using the energy-efficient system version of WebKit." https://daringfireball.net/2024/09/ios_continental_drift_fun...
USB-C Invented by Apple.
AirPod selling at cost.
Apple invented big.LITTLE core. ( He later retract that ).
Probably more than I could remember but those three were some of the worst because his reader would then go and spread the gospel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1232511036&oldid=1... https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/
That said, I still read Daring Fireball every week. His takes may be super biased and wrong, but it's still useful to read things from that perspective.
It’s been endless hit pieces about how they suck at innovation and how having Apple Intelligence is better than having Fortnite and how users having the option to install what they want on their device is the worst thing to ever happen.
Hypocritically being silent when China forces Apple to adopt RCS and has countless regulations on what they can do.
It’s almost as if he’s trying to push Apple’s agenda of why they shouldn’t be regulated anywhere. A more cynical person might even consider that he’s compensated to do so.
But then you look at his past pieces of remote work being the devil, even though he’s worked like that his whole life and the simplest explanation of him being on out of touch person seems to be the right one.
He recognizes China forcing Apple's hand (not the EU) when it comes to RCS, and since China is a large market, and Apple is mostly/generally a hardware company, they want to sell hardware there:
* https://daringfireball.net/2024/02/eu_rcs_imessage
Gruber is not a fan of RCS because it lacks E2E encryption:
* https://daringfireball.net/2024/07/att_data_breach_rcs_ios
When I read that post, I didn't necessarily disagree with Gruber on the encryption front, I just think having a better base for 'cross-platform' message that didn't involve third-party software (Signal, WhatsApp (and having to use their infra)) was still worth it—even if unencrypted. Gruber wants the features of RCS but also encryption:
> Ihnatko is right, but only if you believe that carrier-based messaging should remain the baseline. I do not. And it’s also a U.S.-centric viewpoint. In most countries around the world, platforms like WhatsApp, Line, and Facebook Messenger serve that role, as the baseline “everyone has it” messaging platform — and those countries are better for it. I prefer iMessage, personally, for multiple reasons, but iMessage is fundamentally limited from serving that “everyone has it” baseline role by Apple’s decision not to ship an Android client. Eddy Cue doesn’t lose many arguments but he lost that one. All of the effort spent pushing Apple to support RCS would have been better spent pushing Apple to ship iMessage for Android. And without a supported iMessage client for Android, that role ought to go to WhatsApp, not RCS. WhatsApp is free, secure, and works equally well on all phones.
> Meta knows this, and clearly smells the opportunity. Does Apple?
* Ibid
Google's E2E RCS is a proprietary extension, and I'm not sure how telcos can implement E2E given things like CALEA in the US, so E2E may be stuck in the realm of the non-telco (unlike SMS and RCS, which are telco-run).
But really that's the real takeaway here: the reason that "everyone knows" something that was false[1], because no one actually cares about the facts. Modern laptops do extremely well with battery life, Macbooks best among them, and frankly no one is away from a charger for that kind of period in the modern world. You know the thing will always have power, so you never bother to notice or measure what might affect it.
But you still want to argue anyway, if for no better reason than justifying the $3k you dropped on the device, so... "Chrome hurts battery life!" becomes a shibboleth denoting your membership in the right subculture. It doesn't have to be true to do its job.
[1] And, yes, there is a direct analogy to be made here about the current US political debate about immigration. I won't elaborate but I'm sure people see it.
Remember “Chrome is bad”? (As proven by the empirical method of “I deleted a bunch of Google named things and now not only does my laptop run cooler, my laundry uses less water as well!”)
I do turn to YouTube if I need some kind of visual guide, like for auto repair sometimes, but it's rare.
Most links to YouTube videos I find are excruciatingly slow explanations of something that could be done in two paragraphs and one screenshot, or some kind of meme that I don't find funny.
My current car has a particular enthusiast that has a personal site with detailed text-with-photographs guides to most of the common repairs, and it's awesome.
When I buy my next car I'll probably buy a repair manual to go with it.
For a few things I've found where youtube has some specific content I'm interested in, I'll use yt-dlp to download and archive it to watch outside of youtube.com.
youtube is always in the top 5 for most time spent and visits. "representative" of the typical web user certainly includes youtube
I’m sorry, what? The typical web user is on a phone unplugged from the wall.
I haven't been longer than 15 minutes on YouTube - in total within the past 2 years. So certainly not representative for me.
"Representative for me" is incoherent. You're not a population; you don't have population statistics.
But saying YouTube must be included is like saying that most people watch YouTube, which is certainly not true at all.
So yes, YouTube must absolutely be included. And it should be included as the second most-tested site.
If I look online for stats relating to use of the YouTube app in the UK, it's 20 hours a month. If that's distributed equally across the month, that's definitely not 1.5 hours in any one sitting.
> YouTube accounted for 8.5% of total TV viewing in May, while Netflix was a close second at 7.9%.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardhomonoff/2023/06/28/summe...
Assuming that's true, I still don't think it matters that much.
I expect that a very large proportion of Netflix that's watched is watched on a smart TV. Much larger than the proportion of Youtube that's watched on a TV.
I'd have assumed most people's proportions were similar and that therefore the proportions for the two services were similar; that is to say, for people who use both kinds of devices to watch video, I wouldn't have expected a big difference based on the specific service.
Do you have a source that suggests that people who use both kinds of devices watch a larger proportion of Netflix on the TV but a larger proportion of Youtube on PC?
> YouTube page load is 5x slower in Firefox and Edge than in Chrome because YouTube's Polymer redesign relies on the deprecated Shadow DOM v0 API only implemented in Chrome
Of course Google is using their own browser to showcase whatever new shit they have developed, or they expand Chrome when one of their properties needs some sort of new feature. It's been quite a while that there was innovation in the browser scene from anyone but Chrome... to the contrary, over the last years a lot either gave up entirely or went under Chromium. Including Microsoft.
Is that... actually true? Or is this just a way of spinning something like "gsheets used a chrome-only extension before it was standardized". Has there been coverage of divergent power draw between chrome and other browsers on google sites?
I think it would be much more interesting to put together ~40 hours worth of testing similar to what the author did, then run it with Safari until the battery dies, charge the machine for X hours (where X is the amount of time the battery takes to report 100% plus some margin) then run it with Chrome until the battery dies. Repeat as many times as you think necessary.
That would take battery percentage remaining reporting out of any load bearing place, which I believe is absolutely necessary here.
It's all worth it to me, but there's no doubt a web without tracking and ads would easily double my battery life.
When running a browser performance benchmark, generally not - the ad block extension adds an overhead to the page. I saw this when experimenting with Orion Browser on Mac, which uses the Webkit engine, but adds support for many Firefox and Chrome web extension APIs.
In experimenting with that, I noticed that enabling extensions and using many extensions during benchmarks could easily impact on scores. Even just an ad blocker like uBO had a measurable impact on a benchmark, from my recollection.
I'll gladly pay the 15 minutes of battery power spent on filtering out that trash.
That said, it's been ages since I've last seen an autoplaying video. I only seem to encounter them on American news websites for some reason.
Never, ever venture out on the web without a content blocker.
Given Chrome has a larger and more extensive collection of extensions, perhaps users who see differences are running more browser extensions in their Chrome installation, which impacts on performance/power usage?
Certainly interesting to see these assumptions put to the test though, and get some data around them. While it looks like it may have fallen behind again a little, I noticed Firefox's browsing performance on Speedometer caught up for a while, contrary to what I had thought/assumed.
We've seen versions of Safari and Edge that leverage those sorts of APIs to deliver better battery life on their respective platforms, but if you are writing a cross platform browser you may not be willing to do extra work for each individual platform.
Several years ago, Firefox adopted the solution Chrome used of dividing the web browser window into large-ish sections, so you could at least skip redrawing sections that had not changed, but that still leaves you doing unnecessary work, just less of it.
Prior to that, the battery drain using Firefox vs Safari on newer machines with higher resolution displays was very noticeable.
Edit: I guess it's probably this sort of thing https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/directcomp/a...
Any browser could adopt each individual platform's proprietary graphics APIs, but using the same API everywhere (traditionally OpenGL) is less work.
As pixels per inch and screen size increases, the cost of doing unnecessary rendering work becomes more noticeable.
We are now in 2024.
Perhaps the peak of Chrome complaining battery drain was something in between 2018 - 2020. It also happens to be the peak of Safari is the new IE with so many web features missing and bugs unresolved. Both are correct to a certain degree and have been the case for many years before it reached what could be described as a PR crisis.
Since then Safari had twice if not more features and bug fix than usual in the next few Safari releases. While Chrome worked on multi tab memory usage reduction, and efficiency. At the same time Firefox just went into polishing mode because a lot of the efficiency work already came from Servo, E10s and Memshrink over the past 10 years.
In multi tab usage ( ~50 to 80 ) Chrome is already better than Safari simply because Safari still dont consider lots of Tabs on macOS as one of their usage scenario. And Chrome being better for that for at least 2 years. For 7000 tabs it is still better to use Firefox. I guess that is what I called battle tested. My record was only around 2000 Tabs, and that was 10 years ago.
As a matter of fact, I would consider current Firefox ( 130 ) to be the best browser on the market, single tab or multi tab usage. Being the fastest and most efficient. The last time this happened was in pre Chrome IE 7 era. ( As one could argue IE 6 was better than Firefox )
It's time to deprecate things
Everything is the same as HTML5, but scripts are not allowed.I hate it so much that almost everything in the IT industry is a process. It's necessarily unending. No one is shipping finished products anymore. Everything is in eternal beta. The web standards are the most egregious example of this.
Of course they are, the end game is browsers being the OS. But it's way too risky to give web sites direct unfettered access to the computer (ActiveX, remember the time and the many ways you could be fucked by that?), so a loooot of stuff has to be built as abstractions. WebGL/WebGPU, WebUSB, WebSerial, WebBluetooth... the only thing I'm still pissed about that didn't make the cut is WebSQL - IndexedDB and localStorage just suck in comparison to a proper SQL shell.
But could we please not do that? Can I do something to prevent this from happening?
The same can be done with JS.
I don't see people putting that genie back in the bottle. Not when there are so many designers that override the scrollbar for aesthetics.
For the record, I'm with you - I think it would be great if most websites ran on gopher 2.0 that used markdown for its syntax. I just don't think it'll happen.
And it's absurd that there's seemingly no way for a Chrome user—even with extensions—to prevent a web page from restyling scrollbars into something unrecognizable.
I have used Arc on my M1 MBP a couple of times but don't have enough usage to say anything about its performance. What are its advantages over Safari or Chrome?
I feel much more efficient and fewer barriers to browse the web in a way I grok with Arc. I'd say it's worth an install to try.
Safari 18.0 just came out like two days after this was posted. If someone could re-run a benchmark that would be great.
Especially if (like me) he's got an ad blocker in Chrome but not in Safari.
> […] but I did install an ad blocker on both for a few tests, but they didn’t change the results at all for me.
Having a good amount of background processes running (terminal stuff, IDE, Slack, Google Drive, OneDrive, VPN etc. is probably hard to test without introducing more variance, but I can imagine they could play a part. Especially on an 8 GB unified memory MacBook.
I blame the modern web. The browser is just the universe it runs in.