Comment by dav_Oz | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dav_Oz | Hacker News Reader

Surprisingly it is obvious for Gen Z that social media in its current form is highly addictive and destabilizing in terms of well-being because (usually framed as "mental health"). Since I'm older I had a more of a choice in terms of social media presence (and get away with basically none) the younger folks practically don't.

Basically, I could have got "hooked" as my pre-frontal cortex was already fully developed and I kindly declined. Gen Z for the most part was confronted with the "choice" of small dopamine hits designed after the newest slot machine research [0][1] when they were underage.

As others have pointed out the 90s-00s had its own limitations and frustrations so going back to that nobody is really nostalgic about that part but back then you had to at least choose video games (install it, meet the hardware requirements and get sufficiently proficient in it ;) ) to get to today's level of addiction which permeates mainstream online social interactions.

[0]https://ihpi.umich.edu/news/social-media-copies-gambling-met...

[1]https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11245-024-10031-0

We are very careful with our kids in terms of they interact with technology for this reason.

Raising luddites that can't type won't serve them well over the course of their lives, but neither will allowing them to become tap-and-scroll dopamine zombies.

It's a difficult balance.

My strategy will undoubtedly evolve over time, but I suppose it could be summarized as "permit supportive technology, aggressively deny anything else"

Of particular note is that most, if not all, "for kids" content is actively harmful.

The key to making things work is having a cohort of parents that have similar priorities. If the parents in your social group default to shutting Junior up with an iPad, you're going to have a bad time.

On the last bit, it seems like more parents are coming around to your way of thinking, and our public school system just sent out a survey about how hard they should ban personal electronics from our public schools.

> The key to making things work is having a cohort of parents that have similar priorities. If the parents in your social group default to shutting Junior up with an iPad, you're going to have a bad time.

This has been our priority as parents forming peer groups with other parents. But it's very hard to find the kids that your kids like and are friends with who aren't constantly inundated with tech.

Shutting junior up with iPad seems to be the default. When those parents were kids, they were shut up with television. In a way, nothing’s changed.

The diversity of what is brings shown has changed. If your tv show wasn’t on then oh well. Meanwhile with an iPad you can pick and choose at an instant. The attention span is ridiculous less using an iPad

> Surprisingly it is obvious for Gen Z that social media in its current form is highly addictive and destabilizing in terms of well-being because (usually framed as "mental health")

Is it?

It certainly is obvious to this particular 18 year old, but perhaps he is just above the 99th percentile of his generation in terms of intelligence.

Most others seem oblivious to this reality in my observation.

Just about everyone I know understands that social media is addictive, and can lead to a littany of/exacerbate mental health issues.

All my friends constantly joke about being addicted to x social media app

It is.

Its normalization of failure / suffering. in a village full of alcoholics, drinking with your family/neighbors was part of greeting, social contracts, or venting out frustrations. It was evident to everybody how things end up down the line without exception, but when all are in the suck, mentally it feels better.

Our herd social behavior which make humans such a successful species are showing its darker, and easy to abuse side.

GenZ are mostly aware[0] but feel powerless about it so they don't act accordingly which may seem that they are oblivious.

From personal experience in a controlled setting (tutoring) if I'm strict about the form: no phone and all learning material prepared beforehand I get mostly positive feedback and some even feel relief for that time. Imo the deeper truth of the matter is that they are used to adults struggling to give them full attention, too, a two-way-street but all the blame is usually given to the younger folk.

I find it surprising because it took e.g. smokers a lot longer although the evidence was overwhelming [1] in 1964. Today (almost) every tobacco smoker acknowledges the negative health effects.

It is a insidious kind of addiction: a massive amount of very short-lived, small dopamine spikes throughout the day seamlessly incorporated into your "normal" functional life which makes it extremely hard to get out of the loop.

[0]https://talker.news/2024/08/28/why-3-in-4-gen-z-blame-social...

[1]https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/add.16007

I think this has to do with how a child's parents inform them about the addictive nature. I've been telling this to our children early on ("games = mostly engineered for addiction, be careful"), and the youngest (11yo soon) has no problem understanding this. And I'd say he manages to regulate his gaming hours surprisingly well all by himself.

What I particularly like is that children seem to be quite interested in what it actually is that makes games addictive. So a 10yo might reason along the lines of "Dude, gaming 2 hours straight must be worse for my brain than gaming 45 minutes straight. This game's got too many flashing things, too. Don't want to get addicted. Must go out".

So, from personal experience as a parent, I'd say we adults should not underestimate the influence of educating our children about the dangers of too much gaming. Apparently, quite a bit can be done with very simple means (talking!) to keep things healthier for them. Consistency is key, as always.

I think this is a good policy, but keep in mind that addictive tendencies vary a lot between different people. This talk may not be enough for a lot of kids and it will be unnecessary for other kids.

For example, my parents never discouraged or curtailed my gaming in any way, yet I never had any trouble self-regulating — not because I'm just that good, but because the vast majority of games just don't scratch my itch.

To give you an idea, I tried super hard to get into WoW when I was a university student with a lot of free time, because that's what my friends were playing, but I just couldn't. There was just way too much grinding. I forced myself to play for about an hour a day, but I couldn't keep it and stopped playing altogether after two months. I made a few more stabs at trying to get into it of the next few years, but it never held my attention.

That game definitely had some really great gameplay moments (I LOVED doing instances with my friends, for example), but it was interspersed with so much grinding and fluff that it overwhelmingly felt like a chore to play.

This has generally been my issue with video games. Whenever I find a game that actually makes me want to play for 2 hours straight, I get excited and specifically set aside time to indulge myself as long as I want. It's such a rare and precious joy to get that much sustained pleasure out of a game.

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