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Comment by lewhoo | Hacker News Reader

Yes but the success of BYD also comes from big government subsidies. I'm aware that Tesla also received government money but what China is doing is unfair trade (at least that's the justification for tariffs). Also it's not like there's no competition. A Hyundai Inster costs 27000$ while a BYD c-segment atto 3 goes for 44172$. The BYD is a better car but not by that much imho.

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You say this as if there's single large auto maker that's not subsidized to death.

Here's $841m from Japanese government to Toyota in 2023: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/japan-...

Here's $20k+ from Japanese government for each hydrogen vehicle sold, announced in 2014 (Toyota was the sole beneficiary, their FCV wasn't even launched at that point): https://www.reuters.com/article/business/japan-readies-fuel-...

Here's Subsidy Tracker listing more than $2B to Toyota from the U.S.: https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/toyota

Here's Japanese government announcing $20B subsidies for clean hydrogen production over the next 15 years: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Energy/Japan-to-spur-clean-...

That's just what I gathered from three minutes' Googling. Feel free to look at Tesla, GM, Ford etc. on Subsidy Tracker. Then search for subsidies to German auto makers.

Stop falling for this "they subsidize their businesses!!!" geopolitical nonsense.

BYD received 'subsidies to the tune of “at least” $3.7 billion' [0]. That is 1200 USD per vehicle. China subsides EVs way less than the US or EU. Atto 3 price in China is 119,800 yuan ($16,644) [1], in Thailand 799,900 baht(23,674 USD) 8% tariff and 7% tax included [2]

[0] https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-...

[1] https://electrek.co/2024/03/04/byd-slashes-price-on-its-best...

[2] https://moneyandbanking.co.th/en/2024/115525/

> I’m aware that Tesla also received government money

Tesla received a loan from the US government, which they repaid in full, with interest.

All other US automakers except Ford were bailed out - ie they took many millions of dollars without paying back a single cent.

what China is doing is unfair trade

Dude this is the way the game is played, all the talk of free markets is just rhetoric. Look at Boeing vs Airbus, oil companies, tax breaks etc. For any country - when it suits them they'll talk about tariffs, and when it suits them they'll talk about incentives, and when it suits them they'll talk about the shining beauty of the free market.

Agree. There is no such thing as international fair trade.

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